Fowl Pest Outbreaks (Hansard, 5 March 1984)

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will repeat the Answer which is being given to a Private Notice Question in another place on the recent outbreaks of fowl pest.

§ Lord John-Mackie
My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating here the Answer to the Question. It is rather disturbing that these two outbreaks were so very far apart. I wonder whether the Minister knows whether or not there is any connection between them. If there is not, I would say it is rather serious. We seem to have been shifting our policy on dealing with Newcastle disease, of fowl pest. over the years. I was a very humble member of the Plant Committee which reported in 1962, and I telephoned the Ministry to find out what had happened to our recommendations. I was rather put in my place and told that nobody knew anything about the Plant Report. The slaughter policy, I gather, was brought in in 1981. That was the policy brought in after the serious outbreaks at the end of the 1950s and in the early 1960s. I wonder whether the Ministry is satisfied with the slaughter policy. No doubt, they went back to it because the industry is financing its own insurance scheme. However, if we get more outbreaks, is the Minister still happy that the slaughter policy is the right one, and that we should not do as the Americans do, which is to vaccinate?

§ Lord Beaumont of Whitley
My Lords, I should like to thank the Minister for repeating the Answer to the Question and to congratulate the Government on the steps that they have been taking. But is it not true to say that the risk of outbreaks of Newcastle disease and the damage that they can cause are much greater in conditions of intensive poultry keeping? Will the Government bear that in mind in their attitude when this subject comes up, for instance, in regard to the present draft directive of the European Community on standards for laying hens in battery cages? Do not the Government agree that one of the best methods of reducing this disease and ensuring against it lies in smaller intensification in poultry rearing?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for responding to the Answer to the 21 Private Notice Question being asked in another place. The noble Lord, Lord John-Mackie, asked me whether any connection had been established between the two outbreaks—one in Shropshire, and the other near Thirsk, in North Yorkshire. The noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, asked whether the Government thought there was some causal effect or connection between intensive poultry keeping and the disease. I have to say the same in reply to both points. The origin of this outbreak—the first since 1978—is currently under intense investigation, but at present no link between the two outbreaks has been found. Certainly I would not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont, that there is in some way a link between the intensive keeping of livestock and the outbreaks of this disease.
The noble Lord, Lord John-Mackie, asked me whether the Government would adhere to their slaughter policy. As I say, we have been free of the disease since April 1978, and, if at all possible, we shall certainly maintain our slaughter policy. At the moment there are only two outbreaks. But I have to tell the House that there is a suspected case at Boston in Lincolnshire, involving turkeys. That is at present being investigated. There is in Buckinghamshire a case which has been under investigation for some time, and, as I understand it, so far the tests have most certainly proved negative. So we very much hope for the best, and we continue to work very hard on trying to find the origins and trying thereby to ensure that we can prevent the further spread of the disease.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the disease can be passed on to pheasants, pigeons, and those kind of birds?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, paramyxo virus has been found in pigeons. The noble Baroness will remember the cases reported involving racing pigeons. But it was a different strain of the disease. It was not the same as the strain which has now broken out among poultry.

§ Lord Glenkinglas
My Lords, can my noble friend tell me whether this type of disease is common in Europe at the moment?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I think that I must write to my noble friend Lord Glenkinglas on that particular point. But, as he will very well know, we have been extremely anxious about the importation of the disease from Europe. It was as a result of that that we imposed controls. There was a case; and our import controls were established in November 1982, following a judgment in the European Court. So the answer to my noble friend is, yes, indeed, the disease is to be found. With regard to exactly how prevalent it is, I think that I must write to my noble friend to let him know.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, my noble friend asked the noble Lord about vaccination. Will he say a few words about the Government's attitude to ring vaccination and tell us at what stage that might be activated? Secondly, is the noble Lord aware that we were glad to hear about the compensation scheme, of which noble Lords are of course aware. But has the 22 possibility of a scheme for consequential loss been considered? For example, so far as I am aware, egg producers would not be covered by the present compensation scheme. One greatly hopes that the present outbreak will not extend beyond the present limits, but, if it did, egg producers could find themselves facing severe losses. Will the noble Lord be good enough to consider that point as well?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, with regard to the noble Lord's point on vaccination, I think that I can only repeat what I said. Obviously vaccination is an option; it is an option which is followed in other countries. But we have now been free of the disease for six years, and we shall maintain the slaughter policy if it is at all possible. With regard to the possibility of extending the scheme to cover consequential loss, the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, made clear that he is of course aware of the way in which the present scheme works. It is a Government scheme to begin with, but then there is repayment to the Government through the British poultry health improvement scheme, which is an insurance scheme. Certainly I shall draw my right honourable friend's attention to the suggestion which the noble Lord has made.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, further to the noble Lord's question about vaccination, is my noble friend aware that it is a very much less attractive solution than slaughter, because, once vaccination becomes at all general, it seriously confuses the issue in diagnosis, due to the effect that it has on the blood condition of the birds? Therefore, if slaughter can be prosecuted properly, it is far the most effective solution to this dangerous disease.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I am indeed aware of what my noble friend has said and I am grateful to him for his intervention.

§ Lord John-Mackie
My Lords, á propos the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont, does the noble Lord the Minister know whether the outbreak is in laying hens in batteries, or in broilers? The noble Lord, Lord Nugent, was a part-time member of the Plant Committee, which recommended a dead vaccine, which I think solves the problem to which he was referring.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, with regard to the numbers of birds affected, there are about 250,000 layers and growers in the Shropshire area and 78,000 broilers in the Thirsk outbreak.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us what are the symptoms of this particular strain?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, it is basically a respiratory disease.