§ Baroness DudleyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has been made in work-sharing in the Civil Service, education, the health service, and in the state and private sectors of industry, especially among young people.
The Minister of State, Privy Council Office, and Minister for the Arts (The Earl of Gowrie)My Lords, work-sharing encompasses a variety of practices, and information about particular sectors could he obtained only at disproportionate cost. In general, the introduction of more flexible working arrangements is a matter for agreement between employers and employees. The Government's job splitting scheme and part-time job release scheme are designed to provide more part-time jobs for the unemployed, and apply in both the public and private sectors.
§ Baroness DudleyMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Will Her Majesty's Government encourage firms and businesses to work less overtime and take on more young people?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, again, overtime is a rather sensitive and difficult area because many employers find it necessary to offer overtime, and also the demands of their businesses mean that it is difficult to plan work if they are unable to offer overtime. But in general I agree with my noble friend that it would be desirable if there were less overtime in the economy as a whole.
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, can the Minister tell us how many people there are unemployed at the moment?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, between 12 and 13 per cent. of the workforce. I would have to check to find the precise figure.
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, as we do not live by percentages, can the noble Earl tell us the number?
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, is that because there are so many that you have not been able to count them?
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, would the noble Earl the Minister agree that any type of work-sharing among people would have only a minimal effect on the appalling unemployment that there is among young people today? Could the noble Earl give any indication at all as to whether there is any reason to look forward with any optimism to the situation changing, or to the Government's policies, which are subscribing to this situation, being altered?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, if the noble Lord believes that political policies can lead to changes in employment levels, he is operating against the grain of almost any Government of any political complexion anywhere in the world. I agree with the noble Lord, however, that work-sharing, while it can be helpful, can be so only at the margin.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, would not the position be greatly simplified if Her Majesty's Government decided to make the restoration of full employment conditions in this country a principal objective of their economic policy?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, in striving to provide a climate in which this country can become more competitive and win more customers at home and abroad, that is precisely what Her Majesty's Government are trying to do.
§ Baroness SeearMy Lords, would the noble Earl agree that it is of the greatest importance that the youngsters coming out of the youth training scheme should get employment? Would it not be possible for the Civil Service to set an example by taking on more than one youngster—perhaps at the rate of one and a half or two—for each job while they continued their training, which they will need to continue after the one year of the youth training scheme for the remainder of the time?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, in respect of some sectors of Civil Service work I have sympathy with the suggestion made by the noble Baroness. As I said earlier, we are operating job splitting schemes and the part-time job release scheme. But with her experience the noble Baroness will know that these schemes would not he appropriate at all levels of Civil Service work.
§ Lord KaldorMy Lords, could the noble Earl give an assurance that the coalition White Paper on employment policy issued in 1944 is still regarded by the present Government as applying to them, or is it to be considered as something which is no longer Government policy?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, I was fortunate enough, when I was very young, to grow up in the shadow of that admirable document. My son, who is now 20, is less fortunate and is growing up in current economic conditions internationally.
§ Baroness Gardner of ParkesMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that work-sharing is of great importance to women who wish to carry on in careers, and is quite a different matter from just part-time work in which many women find themselves not able to use their full skills and qualifications at the present time?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, I would agree with that. It is of special benefit to women, which is one reason why the Government have introduced the scheme.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the Minister prepared to have examined the possibility of starting great national projects which would mean that instead of paying dole to millions of young people they could be gainfully employed in, for example, the building industry, on great constructive works? I mean, in short, something like Roosevelt's scheme in the United States which helped to alleviate the appalling problem of unemployment in that country just before the last war.
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, while again sympathising with the intent behind the noble Lord's supplementary question, I would suggest, with great respect, that if he goes and looks at a modern motorway under construction, or a modern building site, he will not easily see many opportunities for young people.