HL Deb 07 June 1984 vol 452 cc770-3

3.26 p.m.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and I hope that the noble Lord knows the answer!.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will quote the words of President Reagan on which they rely (col. 1015, 10th May) as confirming the Prime Minister's claim to hold an effective veto over the firing of American cruise missiles located in the United Kingdom.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, The Government do not rely on any public statements to support the Answer given by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place on 12th May last year, but upon the understanding, which, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said, had been jointly reviewed and confirmed as effective in the light of the planned deployment of cruise missiles to this country. Exchanges between the two Governments on this subject are of course confidential.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the noble Lord unaware that he himself in this Chamber said on 10th May that the Government preferred to rely upon the words of President Reagan rather than on mine? We are all entitled to know upon what words the Government are relying.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence made clear in another place on 24th May, the understandings between the two Governments are of course reaffirmed by letter. Let me add, in the light of the second part of the noble Lord's supplementary, that the United States Administration has confirmed to us that the President's understanding of the arrangements is entirely consistent with that of the Prime Minister.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, has the attention of the Government been drawn to the statement by General Meyer before the United States Congress in it hearings into defence appropriations for this year, that: The operational concept for … the … Cruise Missile … calls for a portion of these forces to be able to launch quickly at the direction of the Theater Commander"? If so, what is the Government's comment thereon?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I have to say that we have been unable to confirm that the words reportedly said by General Meyer were in fact said at all. The United States Administration has made it absolutely clear that there is no question of the United States President relinquishing his authority over any US nuclear weapons.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I am holding in my hand a copy of the United States Congressional Record which states the words as I have relayed them?

Lord Mayhew

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that we on these Benches are grateful for his statement which corrects an earlier statement which he made to me in the House a short while ago? Is he aware that the understandings to which he refers have never been published, and will he give an assurance that they will be published? Finally, is he aware that on several occasions President Reagan has declined to acknowledge that the British Government have a veto of the firing of these weapons, and that reasonable people are bound to conclude that he does not do this because he does not want to do it?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I can only repeat that the United States Administration has confirmed to us that the President's understanding of the arrangements is entirely consistent with that of the Prime Minister. As I said earlier, the detailed communications between the two Governments on this matter are of course confidential and cannot, therefore, be revealed.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that everyone would like to believe what he says? But since the two parties concerned—the President and the Prime Minister—refuse to confirm publicly that they mean the same thing by the 1952 agreement, the public must conclude that they mean different things and that therefore, although the Prime Minister may claim a veto, she does not actually possess one?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that the effect of the understandings is as described by my right honourable friend in the other place on 12th May last year, and I am content to rest on that.

The Earl of Lauderdale

My Lords, is my noble friend aware, and would he agree, that the original agreement made between Prime Minister Attlee and the American Government about siting American planes in this country was never textually published?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I understand that the 1952 communiqué by which time of course Sir Winston Churchill was Prime Minister, was indeed published. The understandings that were set out then have been reaffirmed every time a new President or a new Prime Minister comes into office, and that of course includes Prime Ministers of the Administrations of the party opposite.

Lord Hale

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there really is no dispute about what the Prime Minister says that she said? This is only one example—although perhaps the most grave of all—of an allegation being made against the credibility of the present Prime Minister, who is under investigation in industrial affairs at this moment. Is the noble Lord aware that there is grave public concern in the country about these constant contradictions?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I have a feeling that the noble Lord is attempting to steer the Question on to a different topic altogether. But I can confirm again that the United States Administration has confirmed to us that the President's understanding of the arrangements is entirely consistent with that of the Prime Minister.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, will the noble Lord, when he has time, have a look at United States Senate hearings reference 98–49, Part 2, for 25th and 28th February and 2nd March of this year, and an answer to Senator Tower as I quoted it in an earlier question, and make a Statement to the House as soon as is convenient?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I shall be happy to look at the document to which the noble Lord refers, and write to him if I have anything to add.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the 1952 agreement does not give this country a veto and that nobody, other than the Prime Minister, in either of our two countries has ever said that it does?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I do not think that I can go further than to say that the understandings have been reviewed every time a new Prime Minister or a new President comes into office. It has been found satisfactory on every occasion, and I do not think there is more that I can do to assist your Lordships.

Lord Kaldor

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware—

The Lord President of the Council (Viscount Whitelaw)

My Lords, would the noble Lord excuse me? He had a good go earlier this afternoon. Perhaps he would excuse us from any further goes just for a short time. May we go to the next Question?

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