Overseas Students: Aid (Hansard, 6 June 1984)

§ Lord Greenhill of Harrow
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, we intend to make suitable provision for the continuation of additional support for overseas students in 1986–87, which is the last year to which present public expenditure plans extend. I cannot yet say, however, how much money can be made available.

§ Lord Greenhill of Harrow
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her reply. I know that it is very difficult for her to be precise about future expenditure. Would she not agree, however, that it is most important to give sufficient assurances of Her Majesty's Government's intention to persist with these programmes in order that students and governments can make plans for the future and can decide to send their students to this country rather than elsewhere?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Greenhill, will be aware why I cannot give the figures. Under the PES arrangements, we only look three years ahead. But it is our hope, of course, that the numbers of students that can be helped will be maintained.

§ Lord Mulley
My Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for the assurance that this modest scheme is to continue, will she not convey to her colleagues the tremendous damage that has been caused to our relations with other countries through the differential between the fees charged to overseas students and those charged to our own students? Is she also aware that in the long run, as future leaders of the third world increasingly seek higher education and technical qualifications in other countries, this will be very detrimental to us as well as damaging in international affairs?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Mulley, may like to know that 3,596 additional awards were made under these schemes in 1983–84, and it is estimated this figure will increase to 5,000 in the year 1984–85. We believe that this is a measurable contribution to providing help for students from overseas to study in our educational institutions.

§ Lord Kaldor
My Lords, would the noble Baroness not agree the absurdity of the present arrangements concerning overseas students? I use the term "absurdity" with respect to their discriminatory character as between members of the Commonwealth and members of the European Community. These arrangements have been mitigated but by no means remedied by the so-called "Pym package". Indeed, these arrangements would never have been adopted had officials or Ministers been aware of the implications of the Rome Treaty for any discriminatory scheme between home and overseas students.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, as the noble Lord will know—indeed, he has answered the second part of his question—the reason for the treatment of students from the Community is that it is part of the agreements made under the Treaty of Rome. In regard to Commonwealth students, he may like to know that under the various schemes, including the foreign and Commonwealth scheme, there are now 353 students from Malaysia, 590 from Cyprus, 1,201 from Hong Kong and 42 from other dependent territories.

§ Lord Kaldor
My Lords, New Zealanders and Australians still have to pay 10 times as much as people coming from Greece.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the fact is that students have to pay the full economic cost of the course. But 624 there are these various provisions and there are a number of other provisions, besides the Foreign and Commonwealth Office scheme, for helping students. Indeed, much of the money from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office goes to support students on various shared schemes.

§ Lord Broxbourne
My Lords, in regard to the 590 students from Cyprus, can my noble friend say whether they come from both parts of that unfortunately divided island, and, if so, in what proportions?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, yes; they do come from both parts. There are both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. Without notice, I cannot give the exact numbers.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, do we understand from the noble Baroness that no students from the African continent are benefiting, notwithstanding the enormous contribution we have made in the past to the education of African students?

§ Baroness Young
No, my Lords, I did not say that. I quoted these as quite specific countries that have been helped under specific schemes. Of course, there are students from African countries who are benefiting from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office scheme and from other schemes.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, would the noble Baroness agree that one important reason for encouraging overseas students in our universities is the interests of our own industry and commerce, and that this is recognised by the contribution made by private industry and commerce to overseas students here? Would she undertake to discuss with the Department of Trade and Industry the possibility of their contributing to the funding of the scheme for future years, in order to increase the amount of funding available?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, this funding to which the Question is directed, which is the funding from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, is an FCO matter. But it is something which is done on behalf of the Government and we recognise the benefits that come, both to the students themselves and to our commercial interests among other interests.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, do I understand from that answer that the Department of Trade is not contributing anything at all from its Vote, as the Overseas Students' Trust suggested in their policy paper?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, my understanding is that there may well be funding which goes into other trusts, but the issue of the Question is the FCO scheme.

§ Lord Caradon
My Lords, in view of the great importance, as everyone can appreciate, to universities, schools and students all over the Commonwealth and elsewhere of knowing what their applications can involve and lead to, would it not be possible for the noble Baroness to give a somewhat 625 more positive assurance of intention that these schemes shall continue and, indeed, be extended?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the Government have made it quite plain that they think it is very important that we should have the schemes which have been introduced. We believe them to be very valuable and we welcome the fact that there are now a number of students studying in our educational institutions as a consequence of this. What we have said is that we cannot make an open-ended commitment—we cannot afford to make an open-ended commitment—to the situation which existed before the full-cost fees were introduced.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the review and monitoring which was promised in the Government document responding to the Overseas Trust paper has happened, or when it is going to happen?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, perhaps I might write to the noble Baroness on that matter.