§ 3.13 p.m.
§ Baroness PhillipsMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied that there are sufficient safeguards for the people of Hong Kong after 1997, in view of the reception given to the visiting delegation by the Government of China.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)My Lords, we are at present examining with the Chinese Government how it might be possible to arrive at arrangements which would secure for Hong Kong after 1997 a high degree of autonomy under Chinese sovereignty and would maintain stability and prosperity and the present way of life. We are seeking a binding international agreement in which these arrangements would be formally recorded.
§ Baroness PhillipsMy Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Is she aware that the people of Hong Kong, a territory always loyal to the British, are greatly concerned about the future? They feel that any agreement which is arrived at must be acceptable equally to the people of Hong Kong as to Britain and China. Is she aware that they are particularly concerned that there may be a loss of rights such as their basic law, or, indeed, some of their other freedoms?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, we are of course aware of the concerns and the views of the people of Hong Kong. Indeed, there is a continuous process of consultation with the people of Hong Kong on all matters relating to the territory's future. A wide range of channels has evolved through which people make known their views. We value our regular discussions with the Governor and the unofficial members of the Executive Council. In addition, there are ministerial visits to Hong Kong and the reception of Hong Kong delegations to London.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, in view of the Peking proposal for a joint commission between Britain and China before 1997—in the meantime, that is—have the Government anything to say about the recent proposal of the elected Hong Kong Urban Council that that joint commission should be joined by people of Chinese descent; that it should be a tripartite commission between Britain, China and people of Chinese descent in Hong Kong?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I note what the noble Lord has to say, but, of course, all matters of detailed discussion in the negotiations, which are still going on, are confidential.
§ Lord Fanshawe of RichmondMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that there is deep concern in Hong Kong regarding the suggestion that there should be a joint Anglo-Chinese condominium to run Hong Kong between now and 1997, and will she give an assurance that Her Majesty's Government have in mind no such proposal?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I am glad to be able to reassure my noble friend that we shall continue to fulfil our responsibilities in the period up to 1997. We shall continue to provide the framework within which the Hong Kong Government can administer the territory and plan for its future.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that we warmly welcome the publication of the proposals to extend democratic procedures in Hong Kong, although we wish that they might have gone a little further? Can she inform the House how the Green Paper in which the proposals are contained is now going to be processed? Secondly, can she tell the House what is the purpose of the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary's visit to Hong Kong next week? Is it related to the proposals for an increase of democracy there? Will he be seeing the council or other representative bodies? Could she enlighten the House on the purposes of his visit?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, if I might take the last point first, I would say that my right honourable friend will be continuing his series of discussions with the Chinese Foreign Minister and with other Chinese leaders on all aspects of Hong Kong's future. His purpose is to carry the talks forward at the highest level. On the other point that the noble Lord raised, I would refer him to the answer that was given yesterday in another place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State. We are seeking, by the publication of the Green Paper, to set out the tests of acceptability to an agreement in Hong Kong.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble Baroness. Am I mistaken in thinking that the Foreign Secretary is going to Hong Kong as well as to Peking to see the Chinese Foreign Minister? My question was directed to the possibility of a Hong Kong visit, and to ask what the purposes of that might be.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, he will be going to Hong Kong and he will be continuing his discussions with people in Hong Kong.
§ Lord GrimondMy Lords, would the noble Baroness agree that up to now it has been a principle of our dealing with the colonies that formally, so to speak, the whole population should be consulted about their future before it is decided? Do we understand from her statement that, welcome as may be these consultations with certain officials, in the case of Hong Kong there is going to be no such procedure, which, as I say, has been the common form in dealing with the future of all other colonies?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the noble Lord will be aware of the publication of the Green Paper, which 1627 sets out various ways in which the views of the people of Hong Kong may be made known to the British Government. If he was referring to the possibility of a referendum, which is one of the matters which from time to time has been suggested, I would say that we believe that, given the special circumstances of Hong Kong, a referendum is not a feasible option.
§ Lord Campbell of AllowayMy Lords, can my noble friend the Minister confirm that in the interim period there will be no alteration of the judicial structure of the colony?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I have already indicated in an earlier answer to the noble Lord, Lord Fanshawe, that in the interim and transitional period up to 1997 we shall continue to provide the framework within which the Hong Kong Government can administer the territory.
§ The Duke of NorfolkMy Lords, is my noble friend aware than many of us on this side of the House are very confident about the way in which the Government are negotiating these matters, and that above all we do not wish to see the mind of President Deng Xiaoping prejudiced?—because at this particular moment China is moving towards capitalism. Indeed, it has opened up the free markets and is moving further and further towards capitalism. Moreover, is my noble friend aware that the more we try to make demands which are unwise the more we shall cause the opposition in China to prejudice the possibility of China becoming capitalist and the possibility of it being quite reasonable for Hong Kong to join it?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for his question. It is of course our wish to maintain both the stability and the prosperity of Hong Kong.
§ Lord WhaddonMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware, along with all the other concerns of the people of Hong Kong, of the worries of the various churches now active in Hong Kong that they might not find it as easy to continue after 1997? Will Her Majesty's Government bear in mind those concerns?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the Government will bear in mind the concerns of the churches along with the concerns that have been expressed by other people in Hong Kong.