Greenham Common: Occupation of Land (Hansard, 10 July 1984)

§ Baroness Sharples
My Lords I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, the occupation is unauthorised. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport, as highway authority for the trunk road, will take action if those concerned endanger road safety, interrupt the flow of traffic, or obstruct passage along the highway. In another place yesterday my right honourable friend made clear that the department are considering an approach from the Ministry of Defence to acquire the land which is surplus to foreseeable highway requirements.

§ Baroness Sharples
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Can he please confirm or deny a report today that two women have been camping within the perimeter fence? Can he further say how many people have been arrested near this site since 7th June?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I understand that early this morning two women presented themselves to Ministry of Defence police at RAF Greenham Common claiming to have been camping within the base for a week. The alleged camp site is in thick scrub on a steep slope in a corner of the base far removed form any sensitive areas. There is no evidence to substantiate their allegation. Naturally the circumstances will be examined.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether the concern for traffic flow should be extended? Motorists often find that we get into trouble for causing obstruction when there is no traffic is sight. Would it not be possible for these people to be removed on the grounds that they are a potential threat?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I understand the concern of my noble friend in this matter. But in fact an obstruction has to be proved. Of course, my noble friend will be aware that there is a right of way across the highway, and provided that that is not impeded no offence will have taken place.

§ Baroness Sharples
My Lords, my noble friend did not answer my question about how many people have been arrested since the beginning of June.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I beg my noble friend's pardon. I understand that no arrests have been made since 7th June.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, would the noble Lord agree that the Government are right to act with caution in this matter recognising that the Greenham Common women are public-spirited people, expressing—

Noble Lords
Oh!

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
Yes, my Lords. They are not there for private gain for the purposes of privatisation or anything like that. They are there for the purpose of drawing public attention to what they consider as a severe risk to the people of this country. Having regard to that, are not the Government quite correct to move with caution?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, the House will recall that the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins of Putney, asked this precise question on 27th April. In further response to my noble friend's answer on that day, I can say that the Government are moving with caution; and provided that no offence takes place my right honourable friend sees no point in furthering a prosecution. While I am answering that question, may I correct my previous answer to my noble friend Lady Sharples, when I said that I understood that no arrests have taken place since 7th June. In fact, 30 arrests have taken place since that date.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, are not these ladies, on my noble friend's own showing, trespassers, and does his answer mean that you can trespass on Ministry of Transport land with impunity, unless you actually obstruct the traffic?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I answered my noble friend earlier, in so far as the highway was concerned. That there may be a question of trespass is probably very true, but my right honourable friend feels that the practicalities of bringing an action for trespass would perhaps be counter to the spirit of allowing peaceful demonstrators to protest in a peaceful way.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, am I correct in recollecting that the Minister said that these circumstances were being examined; that is to say, as to whether some ladies successfully resided for a week in what was called thick scrub? When those circumstances have been examined, is it the Minister's intention to make a further statement as to the result of the inquiry?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
No, my Lords.

§ Lord Mottistone
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that some years ago the Mayor of Weymouth had a problem with hippies on open grassland in Weymouth, and he managed to persuade them to leave by fertilising it with pigs' blood?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I was certainly not aware of what the Mayor of Weymouth did some years ago with regard to hippies. My right honourable 753 friend feels that it would not advance the Government's cause, or indeed the ladies' cause, if action of that kind were contemplated.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the non-violent protest of the women at Greenham Common has made a profound impression on the public opinion of this country and has increased the demand for peace from this Government and from other governments?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, in reply to the first supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, I would answer no. To turn to his second question, he will know that this Government—and, of course, all peoples in this country—are desirous of peace.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, would my noble friend the Minister agree that the right to use the highway is the right of lawful passage? Whatever these women are doing or not doing, would my noble friend confirm that they are not exercising the right of lawful passage?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway is right when he says that the right to use the highway includes the right of lawful passage. My noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter asked me whether these women were guilty of trespass, even if they were not offending against the Highways Act 1980, and I answered that that may well be so.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that when he says that the department are treating the matter with caution it might be said to be exaggerated caution in that they are only now considering an approach from the Ministry of Defence to purchase the land, whereas this nuisance has been going on for months and months, to the disgrace and dishonour of the whole country?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I cannot agree with my noble friend that this is a disgrace to the whole country. We in this country have a practice whereby demonstrators may demonstrate and protesters may protest. That is exactly what is happening at Greenham Common.

Lord Hunt
My Lords, would not the Minister agree that a great many of the Greenham Common ladies cannot properly be equated with hippies, and that they command—or should command—a certain amount of admiration for having the courage of their own convictions?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, although the Greenham Common ladies may have the courage of their own convictions, there are, nevertheless, other ways of making their protests which would be more acceptable to the community at large.

§ Lord Stewart of Fulham
My Lords, would not the Minister agree that this country is fortunate in possessing the liberties to which he referred and that it is fortunate also in having the arms and the allies which make it possible to defend those liberties?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, of course I totally agree with the noble Lord, Lord Stewart of Fulham.

§ Baroness Gaitskell
My Lords, I am not a unilateralist, and I never have been one. All the same, I believe that we should extend a certain decency to these women. They are not necessarily bad women. They might even have a perfectly good case which the Government might look into.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, as I understand the noble Baroness, she is suggesting that the Government are not treating the Greenham Common ladies with decency. If that is her suggestion, I would reject it. The Greenham Common ladies are being treated decently and fairly.