HL Deb 06 July 1984 vol 454 cc517-9

11.18 a.m.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they intend to take to alleviate the situation whereby mentally ill and handicapped patients are being discharged from hospital into private nursing or residential homes and "guest houses" where standards and supervision or care may be at a low level.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Glenarthur)

My Lords, it is for health authorities, in co-operation with relevant local authorities, to satisfy themselves that mentally ill and mentally handicapped people discharged from hospitals are going to appropriate accommodation. Health authorities are responsible for registering nursing homes and local authorities for registering residential homes, and can thus monitor the standard of care provided.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his reply. I am sure that he will be aware of the serious and growing concern about the policy to discharge mentally ill and mentally handicapped people from hospitals into private nursing homes. The investigations at Southport of his own department, the DHSS, have revealed such absolutely appalling conditions that the National Development Team for the Mentally Handicapped are gravely concerned. Is the Minister prepared to say that the department will not leave this matter to be decided solely by regional health authorities but that the incidents are so disturbing that it needs ministerial investigation?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I am aware of course of the noble Lord's concern, which I share, for those who, I think very rightly, now leave the large mental hospitals and go into the community. I do not think the situation is quite as bad generally as the noble Lord maintains it is, but I am aware that it is not as good in parts of the country as it ought to be. Where this is concerned, I can assure the noble Lord that we will do what we can to put matters right and there are a number of ways in which this can be done.

Baroness Masham of Ilton

My Lords, may I ask the noble Minister how joint planning between health and social service departments is proceeding across the country? Would he agree that all caring professions and agencies ought to get together to tackle this very difficult problem?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, it is difficult to tell the noble Baroness in a short answer how it is going across the country specifically, but generally it is working quite well. We are taking steps to monitor this in the same way as we are taking steps to monitor specific cases such as those which the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, mentioned.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, would the Minister agree that the points made by my noble friend apply equally to the elderly? Would he agree that the provision of private homes is now one of the fastest growing industries in the country? Is he aware that this is largely due to a quite dramatic increase, in many cases, in payments made from supplementary benefits directly to those concerned at a substantial cost to the taxpayer? Is he aware that the directors of social services have already expressed to his department much concern about this and that there is great concern in the medical profession as well?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, the Question on the Order Paper relates to the mentally ill and the mentally handicapped. If the noble Lord cares to put down a Question on the elderly, I shall be delighted to answer it.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, is the Minister aware that what I have said is not simply what I have garnered for myself, travelling all over the nation? It is from the Department of Health and Social Security, who are so alarmed that they caused an investigation to be made; and it is from the national development team for the mentally handicapped, a great voluntary organisation. May I ask him to at least consider contacting the Confederation of Health Service Employees, with their now famous Mallinson report, which is about 10 days old, on The Future of the Psychiatric Services? This is a well informed—

Noble Lords

Speech!

Lord Molloy

—organisation, COHSE, which can contribute to helping the Ministry and the handicapped.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, it has been the policy of successive Governments to move mentally ill and mentally handicapped people who do not need to be in hospital into the community. So far as residential mental nursing homes' standards are concerned, failure to maintain adequate standards could lead to registration being cancelled. Unregistered premises mean that the person in charge is committing an offence, and authorities have power to enter and inspect premises believed to be operating as a home.