§ Lord BeloffMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have proposals for the closure of the Polytechnic of North London.
§ The Earl of SwintonNo, my Lords.
§ Lord BeloffMy Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that for at least 10 years certain departments of this polytechnic have been subject to continuous disruption by students claiming, on political grounds, to dictate who should study, who should teach and what standard should be applied in examinations? At a time when public expenditure is being limited, could not more useful expenditure in the higher education field be found?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I am aware of my noble friend's feeling on this matter, and I am sorry not to have given him an original reply which would have satisfied him more upon his birthday. However, as my noble friend says, the fact is that in some departments these events have indeed been happening: but in other departments matters have been going fairly well.
§ Lord MulleyMy Lords, I thank the Minister for giving us the assurance—and I take it to be an assurance—that the Government are not planning a further reduction in the powers of local authorities by 2 intervening to close educational establishments. Will not the noble Earl agree that as has been said, while this college has had very difficult problems, it is now making quite an effort for progress, and that the type of questions that have been asked this afternoon are not helpful?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I do not think that I would altogether agree with the noble Lord, Lord Mulley. Some of the comments made by my noble friend were very accurate and very justified. However, my right honourable friend does not have the power to close down an entire establishment like this; he can only close down individual courses, if he considers it necessary.
§ Baroness CoxMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that, although the Polytechnic of North London has suffered repeated disruptions (to which reference has already been made) for more than 12 years, no disciplinary action whatever has ever been taken by the governors or by the Inner London Education Authority, and that the situation is now so serious that some staff in some good departments would prefer to be relocated in a healthier academic environment?
§ Baroness CoxMy Lords, since the political composition of the ILEA is such that it is unlikely to take action to this effect, I should like to ask whether the Government might undertake a radical review or reorganisation of the polytechnics similar to that which has already taken place in London University?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I found it rather difficult to hear my noble friend's questions because of the rather strange noises from the other side of the House; but I gather that her question referred to discipline. I understand that a joint advisory committee has been established between the ILEA and the polytechnic, and that it has already met several times. The aim of this committee is to tighten up the disciplinary procedures of the polytechnic in order to prevent unacceptable and disruptive behaviour either by individuals or by groups of students. The committee will also be considering the question of 3 communication between the polytechnic and staff and students with a view to recommending improvements. My right honourable friend looks forward to learning the outcome of the committee's deliberations in due course and he will be studying them most carefully.
§ Lord AnnanMy Lords, would the noble Earl accept that, if politically it is impossible to close down whole institutions, would not it be possible to close those departments which are not really concerned with the work of polytechnics?—polytechnics being principally concerned with the applied sciences and with mathematics and perhaps with business studies. But the departments to which the noble Lord, Lord Beloff, was referring are not actually crucial to the existence of this polytechnic. Would it also be possible for the noble Earl to look into the reply he made about the consultations taking place between the Inner London Education Authority and the polytechnic? The Inner London Education Authority's representatives on the governing body of this polytechnic have for years supported disruptive action by students in that institution.
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, in reply to the first part of Lord Annan's question, the courses to which he is probably referring are the BSc in sociology and the BA in Applied Social Studies. HM inspectors have reported several weaknesses in these courses. It is the practice where HMI reports reveal weaknesses to offer the institution and its maintaining or responsible local authority the opportunity to put matters right. Both the polytechnic directorate and the ILEA have agreed to take remedial action and we should not prejudge the issue. However, the advice of the national advisory body in respect of the Polytechnic of North London's provision for 1984–1985, as endorsed by my right honourable friend, entails a halving of student intakes in those subjects. So we hope that there will be an improvement. On the matter of discipline, I do not think I can go further than to say that my right honourable friend will be studying the report when it arrives.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, while no one defends or condones antics that go on from time to
| EUROPEAN REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT FUND COMMITMENTS AND PAYMENTS TO BRITISH TELECOM 1981–1983 | ||||||
| 1981 | 1982 | 1983 | ||||
| Region | Commitments | Payments | Commitments | Payments | Commitments | Payments |
| Northern | 6,682,800 | 9,999,881 | 5,320,200 | 174,775 | 4,614,300 | 2,473,668 |
| North-West | 3,881,700 | 963,253 | 2,664,000 | 951,230 | 6,566,520 | 2,657,417 |
| Yorkshire and Humberside | 1,206,000 | — | — | — | 2,865,000 | — |
| East Midlands | — | — | — | — | — | — |
| West Midlands | — | — | — | — | 3,192,300 | — |
| South-West | — | 904,500 | 1,397,400 | 5,265 | 2,985,900 | 143,460 |
| Scotland | 2,014,800 | 1,883,834 | 10,084,590 | 3,264,343 | 3,702,720 | 612,365 |
| Wales | 1,110,600 | 326,495 | 701,802 | 1,170,883 | 6,062,790 | 1,424,385 |
| Great Britain | 14,895,900 | 14,077,963 | 20,167,992 | 5,566,496 | 29,989,530 | 7,311,295 |
| Northern Ireland | 3,402,120 | 2,890,599 | 3,557,149 | 1,088,679 | 3,959,400 | 0 |
| United Kingdom | 18,298,020 | 16,968,562 | 23,725,141 | 6,655,175 | 33,948,930 | 7,311,295 |
§ Note: The payments shown in the table include some payments arising from commitments made in years prior to 1981.
4§ time, is the noble Earl aware that in Oxford in the 13th century all the Welsh students were sent home and there was some talk of closing Oxford then? Could we have the same sense of proportion now?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I think that over the years Welshman have invaded more than Oxford and there might be a feeling on this side of the House that some of them inflicted a certain amount of damage here the other day and that they might well be banished to Wales in return!