EEC Consumer Ministers' Meeting (Hansard, 26 January 1984)

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, my honourable friend Mr. Alexander Fletcher attended the Consumer Affairs Council on 12th December. At that useful meeting there was some general discussion on the respective roles of member states and the Community in protecting the consumer. The council also considered four specific topics: draft directives on misleading advertising, doorstep selling and product liability, and a draft decision setting out the arrangements for an early warning system in relation to dangerous consumer products.
Some progress was made on each of the draft directives, and I am glad to report that the council agreed to have the Community system for the exchange of information on dangerous consumer products. It should prove possible to implement these arrangements in the near future. There is likely to be another Consumer Affairs Council during the first half of this year.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, while knowing that the Minister wishes to be helpful, I wonder whether we can make further progress. Can he say whether or not the draft directives on misleading advertising and doorstep selling were agreed?—because consumer organisations feel that these will be really helpful to consumers. Arising from that, if the draft directive on doorstep selling was not approved, was it because the Danes are against doorstep selling in any form whatsoever and are therefore not able to accept a directive which would seem to permit it? Furthermore, is it true that any decision reached by the EEC consumer council Ministers must be unanimous, and that if there is any disagreement the directive in question must fall?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, there was not agreement of the draft directives on misleading advertising and doorstep selling. I cannot answer for the position of the Danes, but so far as misleading advertising is concerned the position there is that we reaffirmed our position that the proposed directive should not prejudice our existing arrangements for the control of 332 misleading advertising and, in particular, our successful system of self-regulation. Therefore, we hope for some more discussions about that point the next time around.
So far as doorstep selling is concerned, we have a general scrutiny reserve on that draft directive, which we felt unable to lift because the European Communities Select Committee in another place had recommended that a further debate should be held there before this matter went any further. Finally, my answer to the question asked by the noble Baroness about unanimity is, yes.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, in order to save pestering the Minister with unnecessary questions, can a report of the proceedings be placed in the Library at least, so that all Members may know exactly where we stand? Also, does the noble Lord the Minister recall that on 8th December 1983 he spoke of another meeting of the council? I should like to ask him when that meeting is to take place. Does the Minister recall that on 8th December he said (Official Report, col. 1184): I should like to make it crystal clear that the Government are fully in support of a Consumer Affairs Council of this kind, regardless of what may be happening at the council which will be taking place in March of next year"? I was not clear whether the Minister was speaking of two separate councils or of one. Can he clarify that point?
Finally, and very briefly, can the Minister say whether, in view of the reorganisation which I gather is now taking place at the Department of Trade and Industry, we may now hope that a Minister of State will be appointed in another place to take charge of consumer affairs?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the noble Baroness never pesters the Government; it is always a great pleasure to answer her searching questions. The simple answer to her first question is, as the original Answer said, that we expect the next meeting of the Consumer Affairs Council to be in the first half of this year. If I may say so, I believe it will be fairly early in the first half of this year—but that is a matter for the presidency to decide. So far as the position in respect of a Minister is concerned, while recording the absolute confidence of the Government in my honourable friend and all that he did at that particular council, do not let us forget that my honourable friend and the French Minister were the only two consumer affairs Ministers at that council of all the member states.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, in respect of doorstep selling I wonder whether the noble Lord the Minister has noticed recent experiments by companies such as Unigate in the doorstep selling of alcoholic drink? In view of the damage that has been done by alcohol in this country, to which attention has recently been drawn by Mr. McCartney, does not the Minister consider that the EEC should discourage the pernicious extension of outlets which is represented by such a practice?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, as an almost total abstainer, I must confess that I had not noticed that this practice was being undertaken on doorsteps. So far 333 as the Community is concerned, there is still discussion on the directive concerned. We were party to wanting that discussion to continue, by maintaining our general scrutiny reserve.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, did Mr. Fletcher have an opportunity to raise at the meeting in question the protection of the consumer against inflated food prices caused by operation of the CAP?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, perhaps we ought not to go into the subject of food prices now, because that is another question. It is fair to say that food prices have risen by a very great deal less than other prices have done in the recent past, and that is a cause for rejoicing. As far as I know, my honourable friend did not raise that matter.

§ Lord Jacques
My Lords, in the 1970s Governments of both parties made great progress in very important consumer legislation. Can we have a guarantee from the Government that they will take a positive attitude in trying to get these laws accepted by the Community?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, one must distinguish between what it is that the Community ought to do in these matters and what national Governments ought to do. We believe that some consumer affairs issues are best tackled on a national basis rather than through the Community. I am very glad to say that this principle is now accepted by our partners and by the Commission. Having said that, if progress can be made on the draft directives which I have reported to the House in answering the noble Baroness today, then we shall play our part in seeing that they are implemented.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, I am seeking information and not trying to catch the Minister out, but will he be kind enough to look at what he said on 8th December, and perhaps write to me as to whether he was speaking of one council or of two? The matter is not at all clear.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I have the Hansard reference before me but I cannot find that particular place at the moment. If the noble Baroness, before we leave this matter, will just repeat her question then I shall try to give her an answer.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, I refer to the last sentence. I quoted the Minister's words exactly. He said: I should like to make it crystal clear that the Government are fully in support of a Consumer Affairs Council of this kind, regardless of what may be happening at the council"— this time, with a small "c"— which will be taking place in March of next year". That statement seemed to me to indicate two councils, and I was muddled.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I was speaking, of course, about the Consumer Affairs Council, which I welcomed; and we shall certainly be there, at the council, all being well. I was saying then, arising from 334 a question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos, that that was regardless of what may be happening in the Council of Ministers at that time.