HL Deb 25 January 1984 vol 447 cc236-7

2.47 p.m.

Lord Hale

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the programme of inspection of all licensed or unlicensed residential hotels within the Greater London Area, including full inspections by the local fire brigade and inspection of the emergency exists and full advice on fire proofing, is now completed; or, if not, how many premises still await inspection.

Lord Elton

My Lords, the inspection and certification of hotels and boarding houses under the Fire Precautions Act 1971 is carried out in inner London by the architect's department of the Greater London Council and in outer London by the London Fire Brigade. I understand that as at 31st December 1983, out of a total of 1,866 premises known to those bodies 1,766 had been fully inspected and issued with a fire certificate; 79 had been inspected and issued with a notice of steps to be taken before a fire certificate would be issued; and 21 remained to be dealt with.

Lord Hale

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that information and for what he added about the previous Question. He did get into some difficulty after about five other noble Lords in different parts of the House tried to ask supplementary questions.

Lord Winstanley

My Lords, arising from this Question—and I hope that the noble Lord will agree that this relates to it—may I ask the Minister whether inspections by local fire brigades are carried out at Her Majesty's prisons? In particular, are they carried out at Her Majesty's prison at Strangeways—a matter about which prison visitors have recently expressed some anxiety?

Lord Elton

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government always have the fire precautions at prisons very much in mind, particularly in the light of recent experience. The fire prevention officers in that case have been consulted.

Lord Byers

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister who will be responsible for the inspections now undertaken by the architect's department of the GLC when the GLC is abolished?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the change in our proposals for the government of London will bring very little change to these arrangements. The only substantive change will be that the London Fire Brigade will probably take on responsibility for the certification of hotels throughout the whole of the Greater London area, instead of for just outer London as at present; but that should not slow down the progress of certification.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, arising from the last supplementary question, is the noble Lord aware that it is hoped in increasingly wide circles that the Government will change their minds and will not in fact abolish the GLC?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I have noticed the noble Lord's optimism always, particularly in regard to what might be on the Order Paper.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, may I bring the noble Lord back to his reply to the noble Lord who asked the question about the abolition of the GLC? The noble Lord's reply sounded rather complacent to me when I understand that, if the GLC is abolished, the biggest problem for the inspection of these unlicensed and licensed premises will be in inner London. Is the noble Lord sure that sufficient provision will be made for the continued inspection of those premises?

Lord Elton

My Lords, it is intended that the fire authority for London shall be a joint board drawn from the constituent borough councils. They will have exactly the same locus standi with the fire brigades as the GLC, as fire authority, now has. There should really be no difficulty in this at all.