HL Deb 23 January 1984 vol 447 cc21-5

3.46 p.m.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Belstead)

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer to a Private Notice Question being asked in another place. The Answer is as follows:

"The information available to me is that a Danish vessel lost her deck cargo in rough weather on 13th January while steaming over a 30-mile stretch due east of Berwick-upon-Tweed and roughly half way between the United Kingdom and Danish coasts. The cargo consisted of 80 barrels containing 200 litres each of an agricultural chemical known as "Dinoseb". The barrels will almost certainly have sunk to the sea-bed. They are yellow and are clearly marked as a Class 6/1 poison.

"I understand that the Danish authorities are mounting a recovery operation, but that the vessel equipped with the necessary detecting and lifting gear will not be able to reach the area until Tuesday evening, or Wednesday at the earliest.

"At this time of year it is unusual for British fishing vessels to fish in the area. However, purely as a precaution, my department is advising fishermen to avoid fishing in the immediate locality and to report to my district inspectors immediately if they have taken fish catches in the vicinity of the incident since 13th January.

"It is hoped that all 80 barrels will still be intact, but even if every one of them has released its contents, the chemical will almost certainly have dispersed rapidly, and fish are likely to be seriously affected only in the immediate vicinity. The chemical is not bioaccumulative in fish flesh, and it is extremely unlikely that any supplies of fish to the British market from the North Sea would have been affected.

"At this stage I am not able to say why there was such a long delay between the incident and the information being made available to the international community."

My Lords, that completes the Answer to the Private Notice Question in another place.

Lord Grimond

My Lords, I am greatly obliged to the official Opposition for allowing these Benches to ask the first question on the Statement. In deference to the distinguished lawyers I see on the Opposition Front Bench, I must say that I fully understand that this is without prejudice. Bearing in mind that the Question was asked by a colleague of mine in another place, I should like to know whether I am right in thinking that the main danger from the chemical would arise if any of the barrels were hauled on the deck of a trawler and there opened or split, and that the chemical affects the skin and hands of people? I take it that the crews of trawlers have been advised not to touch the barrels if they come up in their trawls.

Do I understand that it is quite clear that it was contrary to regulations that the barrels were being carried as deck cargo? Have the Danes assured us that some steps are being taken by way of prosecution or otherwise to prevent such a practice in the future? Have the Danes also assured us both that they are taking steps to inquire as to why there was such a delay in informing us about this danger and that they will obviate any similar delay in the future?

Lord Bishopston

My Lords, I thank the Minister for replying to the Private Notice Question which has been tabled by a Liberal Member in another place who has constituency interests in the matter. I feel, as the noble Lord, Lord Grimond, has suggested, that there are a number of questions to which some reply is needed relating to a situation that could have serious international consequences. The Minister, if I heard him correctly—I make no complaint about the fact that we have not all received a copy of the reply that he has given—said that it is extremely unlikely that fish will be affected. However, the situation is serious. One wonders about the delay between the incident happening and the information becoming known.

Can the Minister say what consultations have taken place between Her Majesty's Government and other states, including the EC, about action to reduce the effects of pollution, and in this case contamination of fish and food, although there may not be any substantial fears at the moment? Can he also say what action is being taken to protect the interests of the fishing industry and those who work in it and transport as it relates to shipping? Do the Government agree with the Danish Environmental Protection Agency which has warned about the extremely high toxicity of the cargo, and which has allocated resources to rescue the containers? Does the Minister agree about the extreme toxicity of the weed killer involved? What assistance have the Government offered to the Danes in their attempt to clear up the lost cargo?

I believe that the House will also be much alarmed that the cargo was stored on deck where it was possibly subject to the kind of situation that has occurred. Will the Minister say what the International Maritime Consultative Organisation and perhaps the United Nations Law of the Sea Conference organisations have been doing to avoid the effects of pollution and to meet the needs that arise in an incident of this kind? Will the Minister say what monitoring takes place for which the Government are responsible that could be effective in preventing a recurrence of what happened with the consequences about which we know little at the present time?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for what they have said about this difficult situation. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Grimond, I most certainly agree with the noble Lord's assertion that the main danger would arise if fishermen were to try to land these barrels on to the decks of their ships. The noble Lord asked me about the legality or illegality of a cargo of this kind being carried on deck. My right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is leaving for Denmark this afternoon and will be taking up this matter at the highest levels together with the question of the delay in notification which both noble Lords have raised.

The noble Lord, Lord Bishopston, asked about consultation which Her Majesty's Government might be undertaking with other countries, particularly within the European Community, to reduce the effects of pollution. It is important, without in any way sounding complacent, to repeat the point made in the original Statement that, on the best advice I have, this poison—although, it is true, it is highly toxic—would disperse rapidly in water, especially in the rough waters to be found in the middle of the North Sea at the present time.

In addition, it is important to notice that the Statement also said that the poison would be non-bio-accumulative in fish flesh, meaning that the poison would pass through the fish and would not be retained in the flesh of the fish. Although therefore I should like to study what the noble Lord, Lord Bishopston, said about the locus of the IMCO and the United Nations Law of the Sea organisations in this matter, we are not—if I may put it to the noble Lord—talking about pollution of coastlines which, both on the British side and on the Continental side, would be some 200 miles away.

We are talking of the danger of fish being polluted in the area where this grave incident occurred. In order to deal with that, I assure the House that the most urgent warnings have been going out from radio stations around the coast ever since we were notified about the matter by the Danes. Our inspectors have also been active in the main ports concerned warning fishermen and the associations of shipowners.

Lord Bishopston

My Lords, I apologise for coming back so quickly. In regard to my question about IMCO and the Law of the Sea facilities, I recall that when I had the noble Lord's responsibilities within the Ministry, I became aware of the enormous quantity of shipping that sails in the various waters concerned, and also about the need for effective international action and monitoring to prevent such a situation arising again. I am talking not only about this situation but also about others which are unforeseen arising from time to time.

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I should like to study what the noble Lord has said. He makes the point that huge numbers of vessels use the North Sea. Yes, indeed, they do; but it is perhaps right to be aware that, according to our best advice, there were no United Kingdom vessels in the area at that time and there were sightings of only 15 fishing vessels over the previous 10 days or so. The fact of the matter is that, mercifully, this is an area not much used for fishing at this time of year.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, will my noble friend agree that while some progress has been made over the years towards reaching international agreements and conventions for dealing with oil and trying to prevent oil pollution and slicks, very much less has been done concerning the carriage by sea of toxic substances such as this? Will the Government do what they can to prompt action in the international organisations including what used to be called IMCO, now called IMO, the International Maritime Organisation, with headquarters in London?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, my noble friend underlines the importance of seeing that if this cargo was being carried in an illegal way the matter should be taken up at the highest level. This will be done, as I have already said. But we have first to be clear in our minds—which we are not at present—whether the skipper of this boat was in breach of any regulations.

Lord Tordoff

My Lords, arising out of that and further to the reply that the Minister gave to my noble friend, Lord Grimond, may I ask whether there is some responsibility in this country in so far as the ship, I understand, was loaded in a British port?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I do not have information on that point.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, will my noble friend recommend to his right honourable friend, in regard to anticipating future problems such as this and dealing with them on an international scale involving more than one nation, that when such matters are sent from the European Commission and from the European Parliament, the Council of Ministers gives them a higher priority than it seems to have given them in the past for enabling regulations to be made?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, in the first instance, this is precisely the sort of point I think that my right honourable friend ought to talk about on the spot with the Danish authorities in Denmark. I am glad to be able to say that he will be in a position to do so within a very few hours.

Lord Fitt

My Lords, will the Minister say whether he is satisfied that the Danish authorities have the machinery and expertise to recover these containers if they are not at the moment creating the damage that all of us fear? Has any request been made by the Danish Government to the United Kingdom Government for assistance in the recovery of the containers?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I am not aware that the Danish Government have made any such request. On the other hand, I am advised that a vessel equipped with the necessary detecting and lifting gear would be able to reach the area, as the Statement said, by about Wednesday morning at the earliest.