§ 3.40 p.m.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, with the leave of the House, in response to speculation in the media over a so-called radiation leak at the National Physical Laboratory I shall repeat a Statement now being made in another place by my honourable friend the Minister of State at the Department of Trade and Industry. The Statement is as follows:
"In a check in mid-December, before demolition of part of a building at the National Physical Laboratory it was discovered that there were some very small amounts of radioactive material, largely confined to one room, in the building. This building was used 20 to 30 years ago for the analysis of uranium ore. As a precautionary measure the building was closed. The Environmental and Medical Sciences Division of the Atomic Energy Research Establishment at Harwell who carried out the check have since advised us, prior to their full report becoming available, that overall there is no cause for concern. It is anticipated that the building will soon be in use again.
"The radiation involved travels only a very small distance in the air, I am advised less than two centimetres, and presents no hazard to people in the vicinity. Indeed, the exterior of the building is completely free of this radiation and there is no danger whatsoever to those living nearby.
"Harwell's interim report received just before Christmas says: 'The areas of radioactive contamination found in Room 35 appear to be fixed and hence present no inhalation or ingestion problem, during normal use, and the radiation dose rates from these areas presents no significant hazard to those who work there.'
"I have checked this morning with the Government Chemist, who has 30 years' experience working with radioactive materials, and he has confirmed that health hazard is quite insignificant. Harwell will be involved in any decontamination which may be required."
My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, the House will be grateful to the noble Lord for having repeated the Statement made in another place. I did not receive the Statement until comparatively late, but I make no 1160 complaint about that except that the Statement I received through the usual channels contained no reference to speculation in the press. I am quite sure that no one in your Lordships' House would wish for undue alarm to be occasioned when there is no real cause for it, although the House will of course appreciate that the inhabitants of Teddington and of Hampton nearby, where many of the staff reside, must naturally be anxious.
One point troubles me a little, and it is that at the conclusion of the Statement, it is said that it is "believed that the substance in question" was natural uranium which contains a low level of radioactivity. The use of the term "it is believed" surely is a little extraordinary. By this time, bearing in mind that the discovery took place in mid-December, surely it should be possible to be a little more definite than "it is believed".
As one who knows the processes through which parliamentary Statements go in the Ministries affected before they arrive in the House itself, or in the hands of the Minister. I know, as do many other noble Lords, that each word in a Statement is chosen very carefully. I am a little curious to know why the word "believed" should have appeared in the Statement; why not "confirmed"?
The noble Lord referred in the earlier part of the Statement—which I did not see but which I heard—to press speculation. I am not sure whether the report in today's Standard can be regarded as speculation. One understands expressions of opinion and of view in newspapers which are unsupported by any facts as being speculation; but the report in the Standard which I have before me makes a number of most emphatic factual statements. Perhaps I may quote these to the noble Lord:
One employee said that geiger-counter readings revealed radiation levels 100 times greater than normal background levels in corners of the building. His own chair registered 10 times the normal reading".That does not sound like speculation to me; it sounds like the reproduction of a statement that was made by an employee. I am a little uneasy about this at the moment. I should like to be reassured. as I am quite sure the House should like to be reassured, that what appear to be comparatively small matters are cleared up.We should like to know, for example, what the procedures are for reporting radiation leaks when they occur. According to the press report—and I do not put that in the realms of speculation—the local inspector was notified and did not consider it significant enough to report to his headquarters. In repeating that statement made in the press, I do not wish to give credence to it; but for a large number of people in that area, and for a large number of people in the country, press reports are the only thing upon which they can rely.
In this present instance, I do not believe it is sufficient to dismiss the press reports as speculation. I will be grateful if, not necessarily today but as soon as possible, the press reports to which I have referred—and from which I shall not quote further, but which have made several certain definite assertions based upon statements—can be refuted in greater detail, rather than be dismissed as speculation.
1161 In the meantime, I believe it is necessary that the House should know that the standards of safety at the National Physical Laboratory are reckoned to be some of the best in the world, and in the normal way would have no cause for any anxiety whatsoever. We on this side do not desire to add to the anxiety. We are very relieved to hear the Government's existing opinion based on reports of the situation—but we should like a little more reassurance.
§ 3.47 p.m.
§ Lord TordoffMy Lords, to follow the last comment made by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, I believe I can say that nobody in this House is more relieved than I am, as until four months ago I was living within 200 yards of this particular establishment. It is with some gratitude that I am reassured by the Statement—not only on my own behalf but on behalf of my former neighbours, and particularly of the staff and patients at the cottage hospital which is within 100 yards of the National Physical Laboratory.
But some worrying points arise from the Statement. It is too common these days for the press to take any radiation leak story and blow it up out of all proportion. Some leaks have been serious; but many have been less serious. I trust that the leak reported a few minutes ago on the telex, of an incident at Aldermaston where six people have been contaminated from a leak, is not as serious as it sounds.
The question I wish to ask the Government is this. If this matter was known about in mid-December, why has a cloak of secrecy been hanging around it all this time? It is perhaps a minor incident, and one is prepared to accept that that may well be the case. But surely, with all the speculation there has been about radioactive waste and the hazards of radiation in recent months and weeks, it would make sense for the authorities to be more open in their revelations of these matters and not wait until they appear in the press before a Statement is made in your Lordships' House.
I understand, for instance, that the local authority was not informed of this matter: I have it on quite good authority that that is the case. Surely it makes sense, whenever there is this kind of incident, for the local authority to be told, so that it is then in a position to allay the fears of the local population. May I have an assurance from the Government that the further demolition work that is going to take place at the NPL at Teddington will be the subject of consultation with Richmond-upon-Thames Borough Council and its officers to make sure that no further anxiety is caused among my friends and neighbours who live in that area?
§ The Lord President of the Council (Viscount Whitelaw)My Lords, before my noble friend replies, may I point out that there is a point of procedure to which the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, referred and which I believe calls for my reply. It concerns the question of the availability of the Statement, to which I attach the very greatest importance; I have made very considerable representations to my colleagues in another place on this 1162 matter. What I want to explain in this case is that we have agreed, in response to noble Lords, that on occasions, and at request, Private Notice Questions in another place will actually be repeated here as Statements. As noble Lords will appreciate, the texts of Private Notice Questions are not given in another place and that, therefore, puts a slightly different complexion upon the matter when a Statement is being repeated here in response to a PNQ in another place. I thought it important to make that point because I am very sensitive to what the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, said.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, I am very grateful to both noble Lords who have spoken for their reception of this Statement. I am glad the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, was somewhat comforted by it, but quite evidently the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, was not. Both noble Lords asked me, in effect, whether there was a cover-up—I am putting it a little strongly—
§ Lord Skelmersdalewhether there was a period of silence between the time when these events were discovered on 16th December and today. The answer is quite emphatically no. On 16th December all staff individually, and contractors working on the site, were notified that the building would be closed as aprecautionary measure until further notice, and were told the reasons for that. Notices were also posted within the building. The Health and Safety Executive was also informed, as was the National Radiological Protection Board. Articles appeared in the local press on 6th and 12th January, and questions were answered by a National Physical Laboratory spokesman.
All the proper procedures and consultations were followed, and where they are followed there is no hazard. This was quite properly considered a local matter, and was dealt with locally. As to whether the local authority should have been informed, this is something to which I do not know the answer. I shall discover it and write to the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff.
The point I should like to make is that the indications are that the material in question is powdered uranium ore. We shall have to await the final report from Harwell before positive identification can be made. We do know that it emits alpha radiation, which travels up to two centimetres in air and is stopped by any intervening material. By "any intervening material" I mean skin, protective clothing, ordinary clothing, bricks or anything else.
The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, spoke about whether or not the radiation was 100 times the background level. This was quite definitely an allegation which appeared in the press. I referred at the beginning of the Statement to a term to which Lord Bruce took strong exception; that is to say, "speculation". The heading that appeared in the press referred to a radiation "leak". There is no radiation leak. To me a leak involves something that escapes, and this is not something which has escaped. My understanding, as I 1163 have told the House, is that it is a perfectly natural material that has been found.
As to procedures for reporting a radiation leak, as there was no leak these procedures are simply not relevant to the case in question. As far as the 100 times background level is concerned, the answer is again no. There is absolutely no substance in this allegation. Harwell has reported that radiation doses present no significant hazard to those who work there. This is as far as I am able to go at the moment.
Lord MorrisMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether his repetition of the Statement made by his right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, and indeed his answers to questions on this Statement, have been made by virtue of his role as a spokesman in your Lordships' House for the Department of the Environment or whether he is speaking for Her Majesty's Government as a whole?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleNo, my Lords. Her Majesty's Government speak with one voice at all times. On this occasion and on this subject I am it.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, I should not have intervened again except for the quality of the reply that came from the noble Lord. The noble Lord should not be overcome by his own exuberance. I have made no allegations of any kind. I think the noble Viscount the Leader of the House will confirm, possibly in private conversation with the noble Lord, that all I did was to make an inquiry. I did not put my own views behind any of the statements made; I merely reported them as statements.
In so far as "speculation" is concerned, the word "speculation" was used by the noble Lord. I have in front of me a press report which purports to reproduce statements that have been made. I did not pursue these points with any animosity towards Her Majesty's Government, but merely as matters of inquiry.
I still remain to have one question answered. Why was the term, "It is believed", used in this case? Surely it does not take all that time to find out something definite?
§ Lord TordoffMy Lords, I think we are in some slight difficulty. As I heard the Statement, it did not actually contain those words. It may be that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, has in his hand a piece of paper which does contain those words, but they were not part of the Statement read out in this House.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, if I sounded over-harsh—that is something the noble Lord. Lord Bruce, and I, and possibly my noble friend the Leader of the House, will have discussions about outside—in attempting to give answers and explanations to some of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, then of course I shall be the first to apologise. However, he asked me to justify my use of the word "speculation", and I believe I have done that to the best of my ability.