Renewable Energy Sources: Research (Hansard, 17 January 1984)

§ Lord Sandys
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

Viscount Long
My Lords, my department expects to spend about £10 million on research and development relating to renewable energy sources in the financial year to 31st March 1984, and hopes for 924 a modest increase in this expenditure in real terms in the following financial year. This compares with expenditure in 1978–79 of £3.7 million.

§ Lord Sandys
While thanking my noble friend for an encouraging reply, may I ask whether my noble friend can tell the House whether Her Majesty's Government are contemplating resubmitting an application to the EEC non-nuclear programme for 1984–89 and whether the work being done in British universities throughout the country and in field studies in Carmarthen will be applicable, my Lords?

Viscount Long
My Lords, regarding the first part of my noble kinsman's Question, the EEC's second non-nuclear R and D programme lasting from mid-1979 to mid-1983 allocated over 60 million ECUs, or about £36 million, to solar, biomass, wind and geothermal energy work. The United Kingdom received 18 per cent. of the total expenditure, of which about one-third was spent in the private sector and the remainder in the public sector. Most went to universities and scientific institutions—for example, the Natural Environment Research Council. The Commissioner's proposals for a follow-up programme are under consideration by the Council of Ministers.
In reply to the question of Wales and Carmarthen, expenditure in Wales on renewables research in 1983–84 is expected to be about £0.4 million mostly on a vertical access windmill in Carmarthen.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, will the noble Viscount confirm that spending on new and renewable sources of energy has fallen by roughly one-third from a peak of £17.3 million in 1981 to an expected £11 million, as he said, in the current financial year? Does this mean that the Government are giving a lower priority at present to renewable sources? Could he also say why Britain spends so little on renewables in comparison with countries such as Germany, France and Italy, which spend, respectively, £50 million, £25 million and £26 million annually on renewable sources?

Viscount Long
My Lords, in reply to the latter part of the noble Lord's question, energy supply problems and strategies to meet energy demands vary from country to country. The United Kingdom's access to indigenous fuel supplies means that we do not have to spend as much on renewables as some other countries.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, will my noble friend agree that no matter how much we spend on research into renewables that is unlikely to help us very much before the end of the century? Will he say whether research into wave power has been disappointing as research into geothermal and wind energy is proving rather encouraging?

Viscount Long
My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend for his supplementary question, because research is encouraging, though rather slow at times.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, may I ask whether as this Question deals with renewable sources of energy, the Minister can tell us how we get it?

Viscount Long
From Mother Earth, my Lords.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, will the noble Lord the Minister kindly advise us whether there is a broad strategy on research and development into energy and whether the research and development undertaken on renewable sources is related to the research and development effort into other forms of energy? Also, is this kept constantly under review by the Government?

Viscount Long
My Lords, of course, not only with this Government but with any Government, energy—renewables and any other type of energy—is always under consideration.

§ Lord Sandys
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend in this connection whether, in view of the fact that one of the Severn Barrage schemes was designed in 1846, this is likely to be a very lengthy programme of research and development before fulfilment is achieved?

Viscount Long
My Lords, that sounds a very windy one to me, but the Secretary of State announced on 12th May 1983 that the department would contribute up to £250,000 over two years to a jointly-funded study on the barrage by the Severn Tidal Group—McAlpine, GEC, Taylor Woodrow, NEI and Balfour Beatty—directed towards assessment of the technical and financial viability of a barrage built but not operated by the private sector.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, in view of the fact that the Principality is famous for its windmills, is it not a matter of satisfaction that the Carmarthenshire windmill has come into existence? The fact that it happens to be my native country is purely coincidental. Can the noble Lord say whether this is purely experimental or whether it is intended to produce electricity and, if so, to what extent? And is this to be the first of many, in view of the importance of this development?

Viscount Long
One is hoping, my Lords, that it is going to be one of many. It is a start. There is a certain amount of research still going on since the failure of two of these particular projects, one in the United States of America and one in West Germany. From the skills of the people over there, we have been able to learn a lot more, so that in Carmarthen we are really working from the expert knowledge that we are being given.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, arising from the noble Lord's reply to my previous supplementary question—the reply that this country does not need to spend so much on renewables because of our indigenous sources of energy supply—can he say why in those circumstances we spend £220 million per annum on nuclear research?

Viscount Long
My Lords, because I am on the subject of renewables, I really have to say that that is somewhat outside the Question.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, can my noble friend add this further information? Can he say 926 whether there has yet been any serious environmental objection to the experiments with wind turbines in Carmarthenshire and also in the Orkneys?

Viscount Long
My Lords, I cannot give my noble friend that information off-hand. Perhaps I may let him know about that.