HL Deb 29 February 1984 vol 448 cc1273-6

3.1 p.m.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they agree with the words used in Her Majesty the Queen's Christmas broadcast, "The greatest problem in the world today remains the gap between rich and poor countries and we shall not begin to close this gap until we hear less about nationalism and more about interdependence" and, if so, what actions are they taking to solve it.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister made clear on 24th January in another place, the Queen makes her Christmas broadcast as the Head of the Commonwealth and not on the advice of United Kingdom Ministers. These broadcasts are a personal message from the Queen at Christmas. They are greatly valued throughout Britain and the rest of the Commonwealth.

My own view is that the Queen's Christmas broadcast struck just the right note. The gap between rich and poor countries is indeed one of the major problems facing the world today. We live in an interdependent world. All counries have a common interest in working together to find solutions to the problems faced by developing countries. We are doing all we can, within the limits of our resources, to help the developing countries to help themselves.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply and welcome its tone, with which I completely agree so far as Her Majesty's broadcast is concerned. But would she address herself to the second half of the Question, and tell the House what the British Government are doing in order to meet what the Queen stressed was the greatest—and I stress the word "greatest"—problem in the world today?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the Government maintain a substantial and effective programme of assistance to developing countries. The net aid programme for the current financial year will be £1,037 million, which is an increase of 8 per cent. over the comparable figures for 1982–83, and provisional figures for 1984–85 and 1985–86 are £1,100 million and £1,130 million respectively.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Baroness would not wish to mislead the House, but would she not agree that the figures which she has just given represent a fall of between 15 and 20 per cent. in net terms on the figures for 1979, before the present Government came into office?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the figures that I have given show that the amount of money that we are giving for this year and for the following year are still ahead of the rate of inflation. In answer to the noble Lord's original Question, we believe that these represent a considerable commitment to developing countries.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, is not the United Kingdom the only country in the EEC to vote against giving aid to Nicaragua? Is this not quite incompatible with the broadcast of Her Majesty the Queen, and would the Government change their policy on aid to Nicaragua, so as to fall into line with our European partners on this matter?

Baroness Young

My Lords, this is a question which is rather wide of the original Question. But may I indicate that the aid which we have given goes to both the developing countries and, of course, the least developed countries.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that many people in the House will agree with her that the Queen's last broadcast to the Commonwealth was one of the finest speeches that have been given in that capacity? But I wonder whether she heard some of the figures which were exchanged on the last Question, among which was an amount for the invisible earnings of this country from abroad. Would she not agree that those earnings represent to a large extent payments on debt, which is one of the real reasons why the third world has been suffering such poverty?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I regard a supplementary question on international debt as being rather wide of the original Question. But the fact of the matter is that Britain has made a major contribution to the IMF's rescheduling of debts; and, of course. British banks have made a major contribution. Also, our contribution to both the Williamsburg summit and the policies that we have been pursuing are intended to help not only the industrialised countries, hut, of course, the developing countries as well.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, when the noble Baroness says that we have made a great contribution, does she mean that we have lent them more money to pay interest on money that they have already borrowed?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I do not think I need to explain to the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, what I meant by my answer.

Baroness Gaitskell

My Lords, do the Government agree that Her Majesty the Queen has made a most profound and a most clever statement on affairs, and cannot the Government take heed of that and go into the question properly?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I should like to assure the noble Baroness, Lady Gaitskell, that not only have we made our contribution directly in overseas trade; we have, as I have just explained, been helping to reschedule debt. We have already indicated what we are going to do should there be a shortfall on IDA. We are currently renegotiating the Lomé Convention. There are many ways in which we are helping developing countries.

Lord Oram

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that we on this side very much welcome two recent decisions by the Government; namely, to remain in UNESCO and to seek to boost the funds of IDA, despite the nationalistic policies pursued by the United States, and we regard the decisions of Her Majesty's Government as examples of pursuing internationalist policies? But will she assure the House that she will use her influence in seeing that the Government continue along this path of rectitude?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I have already indicated in my previous answer the many different ways in which the Government are helping developing countries.

Lord Taylor of Gryfe

My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that the United Nation's target for aid is 0.7 per cent. of the GNP, and would she tell the House how far short of that target we are now achieving?

Baroness Young

Not without notice on that point, my Lords. But I think I should be right in saying that we are approximately on the target that has been determined.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, in so far as this country has replaced our own manufactured goods by imports from third countries in the world which are now developing—often with assistance from ourselves, to which the noble Lord referred in the last Question—we are handsomely meeting this objective and in the best way possible?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his supplementary question. Of course, this is yet another way in which we are helping developing countries.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, may I answer for the noble Baroness by asking whether she is aware that last year's overseas aid from the British Government amounted to 0.38 per cent. of our GNP, in contrast to the 0.7 per cent. which is the objective of the United Nations and which has been achieved and passed by certain countries on the continent, such as Scandinavia and the Netherlands?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I made it plain in my original Answer that within our resources we have made a very considerable contribution by way of overseas aid. One must recognise that the other countries which the noble Lord has mentioned are countries that are relatively more prosperous than we are, and that unless we get the economy right we shall have even less to give to developing countries or to any other good cause.