Overseas Students: Financial Support (Hansard, 22 February 1984)

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)
My Lords, it is our intention to make suitable provision for the continuation of additional support for overseas students in 1986–87, the last year to which present public expenditure plans extend. The amount to be made available and the way the money will be distributed have yet to be decided.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Baroness for that mildly encouraging reply. Can she however say what will be the actual value of additional support if universities give effect to the increases in minimum fees, which I believe represent something like twice the actual increase in inflation, now recommended by the University Grants Committee? And what will be the consequent likely effect on the number of overseas students who will benefit from the existing scheme in 1984–85?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I think it is very difficult to make an assessment of the precise consequences as it is difficult to make an assessment of the precise consequences of the effect of the extra £46 million package of additional support that has been given. It depends upon a number of factors, including the strength of the American dollar, which affects where students might go.

§ Lord Kaldor
My Lords, will the noble Baroness confirm that students from some of the French ex-colonies receive far more favourable treatment in respect of fees than students from British ex-colonies, and that this is a consequence of the fact that we extend concessions to members of the Common Market which we do not extend to members of the Commonwealth? Does the noble Baroness regard this as an equitable arrangement in view of the fact that some Commonwealth countries, particularly India, have habitually received a high level of education of their political and social leaders from this country?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the Government announced in 1983 that there would be an increase of £46 million in the financial years 1983 to 1986 to expand support to selected overseas students. Included in that amount was a particular sum for students from Cyprus, Malaysia and Hong Kong. Furthermore, there 763 are specific schemes that help students from the Commonwealth. There is the Commonwealth scholarship and fellowship plan—and it is expected that the extra provision will enable 119 additional awards to be made in 1983–84—as well as the technical co-operation and training programme, many of whose students go and work in Commonwealth countries.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware of the immense importance and value that overseas students who come to our universities attach to that experience? Is it not the case that they become wonderful ambassadors for this country? Is it not also the case that they are effective in all sorts of fields, not merely in economic relations but in cultural and other fields as well? Will everything possible be done to support and even increase the arrangements and provision for them?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I have indicated the increased support that the Government have given. We recognise the importance of overseas students, and their value to this country. We also recognise what very good value for money a British university education is.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, in the light of the Government's stated intention to develop a coherent policy on overseas students and the Prime Minister's commitment in Delhi not to make any further significant increases in overseas students' fees without consulting our Commonwealth partners, is the Minister able to say that any future recommendations about fee levels will be made only after consultation with the relevant Government departments and with our Commonwealth partners?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, as the noble Baroness is aware, the increase of 9 per cent. in university fees is a matter for the University Grants Committee. I note, of course, what she says.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, will the noble Baroness undertake that the new arrangements from 1986 will be no less "generous"—I put the word "generous" in inverted commas—than the present arrangements? Will she bear in mind that more than half of these students are not in universities but in polytechnics?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I entirely take the second part of the noble Lord's question. When I use the word "universities" I should include polytechnics and courses at colleges of advanced education and colleges of further education, all of which have overseas students. On the first part of the noble Lord's question, I cannot add anything to my original reply.

Baroness Vickers
My Lords, I should like to ask my noble friend whether she realises that overseas governments have to make plans for their students several years ahead. Therefore, it is essential for them to know as soon as possible what facilities are available. Will my noble friend take particular interest in the smaller territories, which are in need of greater help?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I fully appreciate the point that has been made by my noble friend Lady Vickers, and I also take on board the point which she has made about small countries.

§ Lord Merrivale
My Lords, will my noble friend take particular account of the interests of developing countries in Africa, which are in a particularly difficult position as regards students? I have in mind Chad, because there are a number of students here who, in effect, have had a grant from the British Council and who believe in extending their higher education in this country. Will Her Majesty's Government pay particular attention of the needs of students who are associated with, or who are citizens of, countries in Africa which are in a very difficult position both politically and from a defence point of view—for example, Chad?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, my noble friend has asked a very specific question about a specific country. Having noted the point that he makes, and having indicated the extra support that the Government have given to overseas students and our intention to give continuing support, perhaps it would be best to follow up by correspondence the point which my noble friend has made about Chad.

§ Lord Kaldor
My Lords, will the noble Baroness confirm the point which I made in my first question; namely, that students from some of the French ex-colonies receive more favourable treatment as regards fees in British Universities than students from British ex-colonies? If that is so, will the noble Baroness say whether she would regard the situation as anomalous?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the provision that the French Government make for students from their colonies is a matter for the French Government. I have outlined what we do in this country. It is very important for any potential overseas students to recognise that in Britain, whether in a university, a polytechnic or a college of advanced education, it is possible to get a qualification in a short period of time and in a situation where there will be a very good staff/pupil ratio.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, the noble Baroness said that the increase of 9 per cent. is the responsibility of the UGC. But would it not be fair to say in defence of the UGC that it is acting in pursuance of Government policy and at the behest of the Secretary of State for Education and Science?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, it is not for me to speak for the University Grants Committee, but my understanding is that the 9 per cent. increase is made up of 5 per cent. for inflation and 4 per cent. to cover what are regarded as the costs that are necessary for overseas students fees to meet the full economic cost.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, I should like to pursue the increase of 9 per cent., because the decision was taken it seems, without any consultations with the Commonwealth. Does that really square with the decision taken at New Delhi by the heads of Government that there would be no effective increase 765 in fees except as a result of consultations with the Commonwealth?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, my understanding of the position as regards the increase in the fees for overseas students is as I have described it in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Glenamara, and it follows the policy of an increase which would cover inflation and an increase which would mean that the fees cover the full economic cost.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, would the noble Baroness agree that there is much wisdom in encouraging and allowing overseas students to attend our universities because if they could not get into our universities they might go into universities in the Soviet Union?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I am quite prepared to agree with the noble Lord, Lord Leatherland, that it is always worthwhile to go to a British institution of higher education.