HL Deb 01 February 1984 vol 447 cc653-4
Baroness Lockwood

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they expect the Manpower Services Commissions's pilot project in Birmingham to commence, involving a continuation of youth training scheme for a second year for those young people unable to find immediate work.

The Minister of State, Privy Council Office, and Minister for the Arts (The Earl of Gowrie)

My Lords, the Manpower Services Commission does not propose to fund any such pilot project, I understand that the project in question, which will operate outside the scope of the youth training scheme, is being organised by the City of Birmingham education department.

Baroness Lockwood

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his reply, but I find it somewhat disappointing. Would he not agree that this is the kind of pilot project that should be encouraged, particularly as it is hoped that the youth training scheme will become part of the modular system of training in place of the fast-declining traditional apprenticeship system? Will the noble Earl undertake, through his right honourable friend the Secretary of State, to encourage the Manpower Services Commission and local authorities to mount such pilot projects in other places?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, on the subject of training, the noble Baroness will be aware that I made a fairly lengthy Statement on training in your Lordships House yesterday. I hope that the noble Baroness will kindly look at that Statement, because I think she will find that it contains much to encourage her. On the subject of the City of Birmingham education department's pilot project, I have nothing but praise for their initiative in this regard; but, as I have said, it is not part of the Manpower Services Commission's youth training scheme, and to extend that to two years would of course be enormously expensive and could have a deleterious effect on the prospects of real employment for young people.

Lord Kilmarnock

My Lords, as the noble Earl told us yesterday that some 300,000 youths are now engaged on the youth training scheme—and I believe that the Government's original aim was 460,000—does it not give a little latitude, perhaps, for some diversion of resources into a second year for some of these young people?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, the Government take the view that it would be best to devote resources and the skills and dedication of very many people involved in the youth training scheme—not least employers—to improving its quality on a constant basis. I rather doubt whether to extend it would have that effect.

Baroness Lockwood

My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that, in the White Paper issued yesterday, it says that one of the objectives of the training programme is to improve training, particularly in the field of apprenticeships? Would the noble Earl not agree that the Birmingham initiative could be part of this improvement?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, as I said, I have nothing but praise for the Birmingham initiative. But if the noble Baroness will look at my Statement she will see that the Government are channelling more resources into training this year than at any time in our history.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, I should like to ask the noble Earl the Minister whether the Government will please look again at this suggestion as it is of some importance to hundreds of thousands of people. Will he bear in mind that the civic motto of Birmingham is "Forward"?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, I am afraid I did not hear the second part of the noble Lord's supplementary question, but I think he was again trying to draw me into praise of the City of Birmingham, and that, as someone who resides within an hour of it, I am delighted to do.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, if the noble Minister wishes to find something to praise in Birmingham, he can take note of the fact that I was born there.