HL Deb 11 December 1984 vol 458 cc119-20
Baroness Elliot of Harwood

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has been made in negotiations with Spain and Portugal over the common fisheries policy, with a view to their entry into the European Communities.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Belstead)

My Lords, the European Council, at its meeting in Dublin on 3rd and 4th December, reached agreement on the Community's position on a number of outstanding issues in the enlargement negotiations, including the fisheries aspects. This should clear the way for negotiations with Spain and Portugal to proceed.

Baroness Elliot of Harwood

My Lords, that is very good news for the fishing industry. Can my noble friend say whether we may be quite certain that the enormous Spanish fleet will not be allowed into the North Sea and thus compete with our fleets and other EEC members' fleets?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, the Community's agreed position is that Spain ought in principle to have no more access to species of fish, subject to total allowable catches and quotas, than she already has. I hope that answers my noble friend's question.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, is it not the case that the agreement in Dublin was not an agreement with Spain or about Spain but rather an agreement among member states about their common position—that fishing stocks and the traditional rights of member states should be protected? There was no agreement in Dublin to deal with the fact that Spain has 17,000 trawlers. If those trawlers were let loose in the traditional fishing grounds of this country and of other countries, then the British fishing industry would be at an end. Can the Minister indicate clearly to the House that the attitude of Her Majesty's Government will be one of defending that British fishing industry—or at least what remains of it?

Lord Belstead

My Lord, the noble Lord is quite right when he says that the European Council adopted an agreed negotiating position on fisheries in the light of the concern felt by member states over safeguarding the balance of the common fisheries policy following Spanish and Portuguese accession. Without being too explicit, I believe that that agreement among the Community member states fully safeguards United Kingdom fishing interests. But so far as concerns the specific point which the noble Lord puts to me—about the size of the Spanish fishing fleet—it is certainly the position of Her Majesty's Government that we believe there should be a restructuring of that fleet, both before the accession of Spain and, if necessary, afterwards.

Lord Boothby

My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that what is causing anxiety in the British fishing industry is the sheer size of the Spanish fishing fleet, which is the largest in the world? Do Her Majesty's Government realise that some limit must be placed on the number of Spanish vessels which can fish in northern European waters?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I wholly agree. The noble Lord, Lord Boothby, has long experience of these matters, and it can hardly be a matter of surprise that I entirely agree with what he has said. This is inevitably going to mean a restructuring of the Spanish fishing fleet.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, have the Government obtained the full agreement of the other members of the EEC to the aim stated by my noble friend Lord Belstead in his replies to me in, this House last October? He said then that the common fisheries policy should not be re-opened, having concluded with great difficulty and being intended to last for many years.

Lord Belstead

My Lords, if I may say so, I do not think that that matter was explicitly discussed in Dublin: I think it is implicitly agreed. The question discussed at Dublin was whether the European Council should, in the middle of these difficult negotiations and in taking stock, decide that they were all saying the same things so far as their attitudes to the enlargement negotiations were concerned. They did so decide, and I repeat that the agreement at Dublin, so far as fishing was concerned within the Community, fully safeguards United Kingdom fishing interests.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, the noble Lord has tried valiantly to reassure the House about this matter, but will he be good enough to explain what "restructuring" a fleet of 17,000 fishing vessels means? Does it mean reducing that number of 17,000 vessels substantially?

Lord Belstead

Yes, my Lords.

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