§ 2.52 p.m.
Baroness VickersMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government how many jobs have been created in information technology as a result of the Government's "new blood" and information technology initiatives.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the Government's information technology initiative is being introduced over three years beginning with the academic year 1983–84. Only limited information is available about the number of new jobs being created. In the universities about 130 new academic posts are planned, of which 61 have been filled to date. In addition, 33 IT Fellows were appointed for 1983–84 with funds from the Science and Engineering Research Council, and over 100 additional fellowships will be available for the later years of the programme.
As yet, no figure is available for the number of jobs being created in the polytechnics and other colleges, but it is estimated that about 100 new academic posts have been created to date and that the total of academic posts will be more than double this. In both sectors, new jobs may also be created for technicians and other staff, but no estimate of the numbers involved is available.
The "new blood" scheme covers the whole range of academic subjects, but the allocation of posts for 1984–85 recently announced by the University Grants Committee included 13 posts in subjects related to information technology.
Baroness VickersMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Can she give me a breakdown between men and women in the "new blood" section and also in the information technology section? Will she try to get more students for these two courses?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I can say that there is a small and steady increase in the numbers of women taking courses in technology. Overall, in higher education, in science subjects 30 per cent. are women, 8 per cent. of university students in engineering are women, and 3 per cent. of those in polytechnics studying engineering are women. It is my hope that more women will go for places in the women-in-science and women-in-engineering courses which are being established.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Baroness has had an opportunity to look at the numerous pages of advertisements for jobs in journals such as Computing and Computer Weekly? If she has done so, has she noticed that the vast majority of employers are asking for several years' experience in the relevant skills? Therefore, what steps are the Government taking to ensure that the people coming out of the universities and polytechnics obtain the practical training in programming and other skills which is necessary for them to be able to apply for the sort of jobs that are widely advertised and where the skills are most needed?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, in answer to the first part of the noble Lord's supplementary question, I am afraid that I have not studied the pages of jobs in Computing, but I think it is an important point that young people should be encouraged to take courses which lead to jobs that are available. Part of the function of both the new money which has gone into information technology and the "new blood" money is to see that there will be more qualified people to fill these jobs.
§ Baroness LockwoodMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Baroness would confirm that for the "new blood" posts there is an upper age limit of 35? In view of the fact that very few women were successful in achieving posts in the first batch of "new blood" appointments, would she consider approaching her right honourable friend to see whether the age limit of 35 could be varied in respect of women applicants, particularly in view of the fact that women tend to be behind men in their career progression? Secondly, in the light of the real and growing shortage of people for highly skilled information technology posts, would she approach her right honourable friend the Secretary of State to see whether he will consider the possibility of making available conversion courses under the heading of the information technology posts? I understand that a number of these are conversion courses, but I wonder whether her right honourable friend would consider the possibility of making a group of posts available for women in the light of the real shortage and of the fact that it is widely acknowledged—
§ Baroness LockwoodMy Lords, I am sure the Minister agrees that it is widely acknowledged that it is from women—
§ Baroness Lockwood—that the new sources must come in the future.
§ Baroness Young; My Lords, I can confirm that the age limit has been set at 35 since the purpose of this programme is to appoint young, able researchers who will introduce fresh ability and energy into these new fields of science and technology. I understand, however, that there is some room for flexibility in special circumstances, but only where there are no suitable applicants under the age limit. On the question of conversion courses, I will draw to the attention of my right honourable friend the point that the noble Baroness has made.
§ Lord GlenamaraMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that in Newcastle-upon-Tyne the university and the polytechnic, which have about 8,000 students each, have reached an advanced stage in planning a technology centre? They did so on the understanding that Government funds would match any funds generated locally. Having reached the point where the thing can take off, they have been informed that no Government funds are forthcoming. Does the noble Baroness know anything about this, and, if she does, 1148 how does she reconcile it with the rather rosy picture she has painted in her replies?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the specific question that the noble Lord has asked is somewhat different from the Question on the Order Paper, which concerns the numbers of jobs that have been created. Appointments at universities, as the noble Lord will know, are a matter for the University Grants Committee.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say whether, in any advance in the technological field, be it from the "new blood" scheme or from any other scheme or advancement, the Government are seized of the frightening dilemma that the introduction of new technology may sometimes be advancement for the few and unemployment for the many?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, it is important for the whole country to realise that we must keep up with new technology, and the Government believe that a great many new jobs will be created provided that we are skilled and equipped to take advantage of the new technology.
§ Lord SandysMy Lords, arising out of that reply, can my noble friend confirm that many new jobs are being created in enterprise zones, especially in Corby in Northamptonshire? Can she confirm that the Commodore Company of America recently announced that up to 1,000 jobs are being created there as a result of information technology initiatives?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, my noble friend's question is rather wide of the original one on the Order Paper, but if he would care to put it down as a separate Question I would be glad to try to answer it.
§ Baroness DavidMy Lords, may I ask the Minister in how many universities there are "new blood" posts? In deciding to which universities the "new blood" posts go, is there any consideration given to whether they are in areas of high unemployment?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, my understanding is that as far as the posts for the "new blood" initiative are concerned, it is for the University Grants Committee to determine what the distribution will be. I have a list which I think I could make available to the noble Baroness if she would care to see it.