§ 3.6 p.m.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government what measures they will take to persuade the Government of Belize to adhere to the 1951 Geneva Convention on the State of Refugees and, in accordance with the advice of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, to recognise the status of the several thousand Salvadorean and Guatemalan refugees now in Belize.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, we would welcome Belize's adherence to the convention, but as Belize is an independent state this is entirely a matter for its own government.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, is not the traditional relationship between this country and Belize—the presence of British troops and the special relationship which endures—sufficient to entitle our Government to give them a bit of a nudge towards recognising the true status of these people, thereby allowing the United Nations High Commissioner for refugees to help them—which he cannot do at present?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, we ourselves are party to the convention and would welcome the adherence of any other goverment to the convention. I should like to confirm that the Belize Government assists several thousand Salvadoreans in Belize and adopts a tolerant and benevolent attitude towards all genuine refugees. The Belize Government is concerned to help refugees integrate into Belizean society, and, as one example of that, we have the Valley of Peace farming settlement.
§ Lord MishconMy Lords, does not the noble Baroness the Minister agree that the Question and Answer that we have had this afternoon in regard to Belize is a reminder to the House of the plight of many millions of refugees, through political causes, in the world today? Are Her Majesty's Government prepared to take the initiative to see that the powers are called together—the High Commissioner being largely helpless in regard to the heavy task that he has to perform—in order to see whether each of the great powers cannot make some contribution in regard to this problem, which is a blot on the civilised world?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, Her Majesty's Government are very conscious of the numbers of refugees in the world and give financial assistance towards helping refugees—both those who are the subject of this Question in Central America and the refugees in other parts of the world.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, the noble Baroness said that there were several thousand refugees in Belize from El Salvador. She did not give the figures from Guatemala. I wonder whether she could say what information the Government have been given by the authorities in Belize about the numbers crossing the borders from Guatemala; what deductions they draw from those figures about the deterioration in the human rights situation in Guatemala and whether that confirms the report recently made by the American Watch Committee of a serious downgrading of the human rights situation in that country?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the current Belize Government estimate that the refugee population in Belize is between 2.500 and 3,000. In 1982, 2,000 Salvadoreans in Belize received assistance from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. I think it is important to distinguish between refugees and illegal immigrants who may be deported; it is a quite separate issue from that of refugees.
Baroness VickersMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness the Minister whether or not, in view of the fact that Belize is really under-populated, there is a chance of getting these people some work while they are in that country?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, as I have already indicated in answering an earlier question, we believe that the Belize Government have assisted their refugees, have adopted a benevolent attitude towards them and have tried to find some work for, at any rate, some of them.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, if the noble Baroness, Lady Young, has not got the figures for refugees in Belize from Guatemala now, I wonder might she give those figures to us on another occasion?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I do not have the figure of the precise numbers of Guatemalans as refugees in Belize. If it is possible to obtain these figures I will, of course, let the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, know.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, in spite of everything which the noble Baroness has said, can she give the House some hope that it is not impossible that Her Majesty's Government might, quite quietly behind the scenes, urge the government of Belize to get in line with the rest of the civilised world, recognise refugees as refugees, and thereby open the gates to proper United Nations assistance?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I hope in answering one of the earlier supplementary questions I have indicated that we should welcome the adherence of any other government to the convention.