HL Deb 05 April 1984 vol 450 cc798-9

3.19 p.m.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many people will be affected by their decision to end the subsidised provision of NHS spectacles except for children and those on supplementary benefits and, within this total, how many retirement pensioners will be affected.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, in the year after March 1985 some three million people who would at present be entitled to receive an average subsidy of £5 on lenses supplied under the general ophthalmic service, will become private patients. Information on how many are retirement pensioners is not available.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for her Reply, does this not reveal a very disturbing situation? Will not the noble Baroness accept that, in order to save £17 million, the Government have decided that 64 per cent. of NHS optical patients will cease to be eligible for NHS spectacles, lenses and frames? Since a high proportion of these are pensioners and since pensioners are seeing their income go down in relation to earnings, does she not feel some concern on behalf of the Government? With the increase in prescription charges and dental charges, is not this just another attack upon the services provided by the National Health Service?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, it really is beyond me why the noble Lord rejoices in being a prophet of doom and gloom. In four years' time he, too, will become a pensioner. Our proposals to relax the opticians' monopoly and to allow advertising will increase competition. A competitive market is the best price regulator. The important point is that people should get the glasses that they need. It does not follow that the state should supply them.

Lord Bruce-Gardyne

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I have here in my hand a pair of glasses acquired without the benefit of the National Health Service; acquired without the benefit of prescription; and acquired from an unauthorised purveyor? Is she also aware that they cost me £7.50 and that they suit me to a "T"? Is it not the case that by far and away the best thing we could do for the overwhelming majority of pensioners would be to allow them to acquire spectacles in exactly the same manner as I have acquired these?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his remarks. I hope that his specs fit him to an "I".

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, first I must declare an interest as a long-standing pensioner. Is the noble Baroness aware that large numbers of people have operations for cataracts and similar eye diseases, and that they therefore have to use very special lenses which are very expensive? Furthermore, is she also aware that they have to wear them and get them on the National Health Service on medical grounds, otherwise in many cases they would be totally blind? What will happen to such people under the provisions of the Government's new Bill?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, a tiny minority of about 4 per cent. are subsidised by £10 or more because they need more powerful or complex lenses. We are considering the possibility of helping them without subsidising those on substantial incomes who are well able to afford their glasses.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, does not the answer which the noble Baroness has just given mean that she is going to add another means test? Why should this be the case? Is it not grossly unfair to elderly pensioners—whether or not they have to wait four years like me; and I do not know whether it is in the interests of the House that my age should be revealed across the Dispatch Box—that they all of a sudden now find that they are going to have to pay, in some cases, much more? It has nothing to do with competition. Would the noble Baroness not agree that this is very unfair to the pensioners?

Baroness Trumpington

No, my Lords, I would not. Free spectacles as of right are at present given to the following categories: the under 16s; the over 16s and under 19s still in full-time education; those receiving supplementary benefit or family income supplement; those receiving free milk and vitamins and/or free prescriptions on income grounds. I only revealed the noble Lord's age because mine is the same.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, may I congratulate the noble Baroness on appearing so much younger than she is? Why are the unemployed not included on her list?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, because they do not fall into the categories that exist.

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