HL Deb 28 November 1983 vol 445 cc497-500

7.17 p.m.

The Lord Chancellor (Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone) rose to move, That the regulations laid before the House on 8th November be approved.

The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, I rise to move the first of the six Motions standing in my name on the Order Paper. With the permission of the House and if it is for the convenience of the House, I shall speak to all six together and move the remaining five formally one by one. The first three Motions relate to legal aid and legal advice in England and Wales, and the other three relate only to Scotland.

The first two Motions increase respectively the income and capital financial limits for civil legal aid and legal advice and assistance. This is the second increase this year. In the last two years the review of the limits has taken place at the beginning of the financial year. Dependants' allowances are automatically increased in November in line with those for supplementary benefit. So there have been two changes each year in the financial conditions. This has proved administratively complex and also confusing for applicants, and it has therefore been decided, if the House agrees, to revert to a November up-rating for the financial limits this year and in the future.

The income limits for legal aid and for legal advice and assistance are to rise by 4.3 per cent. This ensures that the present relationship between legal aid limits and those for supplementary benefit is maintained. The alignment between the lower capital limit and the supplementary benefit capital limit introduced last April is preserved.

Moving on to describe the regulations in greater detail, the legal aid regulations raise the lower disposable income limit—that is the level of disposable income below which no contribution is payable—from £1,965 a year to £2,050. The upper income limit—that is the level above which legal aid is not available—increases by the same proportion, from £4,720 to £4,925. The lower capital limit (below which there is no contribution from capital) increases from £2,500 to £3,000, and the upper capital limit (above which legal aid is not normally available) increases from £4,000 to £4,500. The advice and assistance regulations raise the lower disposable income limit for the Green Form scheme from £47 to £49 a week, and the upper income limit from £99 to £103 a week. The capital limit above which assistance is not available increases from £700 to £730.

The House will also be aware that I have made a further set of regulations for which an affirmative resolution is not required. These are the Legal Advice and Assistance (Amendment) Regulations (No. 2) 1983, which consequentially revise the scales of contributions which an applicant for advice and assistance may be required to make towards his costs.

The corresponding Scottish regulations are a little different. Their lower disposable income limit for advice and assistance does not appear in the regulations which require affirmative resolution, but in the instruments subject to the negative resolution procedure together with the amendments to the contribution scale. These are the Legal Advice and Assistance (Scotland) (Financial Conditions) (No. 3) Regulations 1983.

The remaining two motions are the Legal Advice and Assistance (Prospective Cost) (No. 2) Regulations 1983 and the corresponding Scottish regulations. These increase from £40 to £50 the cost of the advice and assistance which a solicitor may provide to a client without first obtaining the approval of a legal aid general committee of the Law Society or a local committee of the Law Society of Scotland. The limit is not a bar on the total amount of advice and assistance which a solicitor may provide but an administrative check which enables the Law Society to control the use of the scheme.

The limit was last increased in 1980. Rising costs have made it increasingly difficult for solicitors in many cases to provide adequate advice and assistance without exceeding the £40 limit. As a result, the administrative burden for the Societies' committees has steadily increased. The increase is to £50. This should enable solicitors in most cases to provide advice and assistance without incurring the trouble and possible delay involved in applying for an extension, and reduce administrative costs. I should, I think, also inform the House that I have made, and placed before it under the procedure for negative resolution, four instruments which have the same effect on the legal aid and advice provisions for Northern Ireland.

I should also wish to inform the House now that although in the end, I suppose primary legislation will be necessary, for which I will seek an appropriate opportunity, I have decided to make a change in the capital limit for assistance by way of representation which, as an extension of legal advice and assistance, provides representation for certain specified proceedings before courts and tribunals. The present capital limit is the same as for the low cost Green Form scheme. Because the costs of assistance by way of representation can be considerably higher, and because I believe that the present limit bears unduly heavily on those involved in proceedings for which no other form of legal aid is available, I have decided to increase the capital limit for assistance by way of representation to the level of the lower legal aid capital limit. This will be £3,000 if these regulations are approved. Applicants with capital resources between £700 and £3,000 will therefore for the first time become eligible for assistance of this kind. My Lords, I beg to move the first regulation standing in my name on the Order Paper.

Moved, That the regulations laid before the House on 8th November he approved.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

7.25 p.m.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, the House will be grateful to the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor for introducing this number of regulations. I hope that at an early stage a child's guide to these complexities will be produced for the benefit of the public and, of course, the lawyers who will be responsible for implementing these provisions. That there was need to increase the availability of legal aid and assistance, and legal aid and advice, was already apparent.

The formula that has been used for some years now is to maintain, as the noble and learned Lord has said, a relationship between legal aid benefits and supplementary benefits. I understand that the figure of 4.3 per cent. is the relevant figure. We have had explained to us how the capital sums and disposable limits, and the other factors, have all, as I understand it, been raised by that percentage of 4.3 per cent. I was not clear whether the Scottish provisions were more or less generous (if "generous" is the right word) than the English provisions. There will he a great deal of trouble if they are less generous, and perhaps the noble and learned Lord will indicate to us what the position is with regard to that.

What one would like to identify is the extent to which these changes meet the real need. I do not know whether it is possible for the noble and learned Lord, in relation now to the legal aid provisions, the provisions relating to the financial conditions, to give any statistic as to what proportion of the population in terms of a family of father and mother and two children will be covered by these regulations. I recollect that before I, in the position of the noble and learned Lord, introduced in 1979substantial improvements, increments, in the provisions, we then hoped to be able to cover about 70 per cent., I think it was, of families within the scope that I have mentioned of the husband and wife and two children who could be brought into the legal aid and advice scheme. Perhaps that statistic is not readily available, but if it is I am sure it will be of great interest and, I hope, encouragement, because I fear that before I introduced those regulations in 1979 the provision had fallen back very badly indeed.

The noble and learned Lord has refrained from telling the House what the financial cost of these changes is. I do not know whether that material is readily available, but whatever the cost may be I am quite sure that in this complex world of legislation, claims, rights and liabilities there is a need for the provision for the citizens of the means of obtaining legal advice and assistance from solicitors—it used to be called the Green Form scheme in my day—to be extended, as I understand it, to provide also for some finance and facilities for legal representation in the courts, extending the sphere of mere legal advice and assistance to actual representation. That I regard as a beneficial step. If the noble and learned Lord could give an indication of where we are going in this field, both in the terms of cost and availability, I am sure the public will be greatly interested.

In the meantime, I thank the noble and learned Lord for bringing these regulations forward and for the timing. I do not criticise, and I have doubt there is a good administrative reason for, the November uprating. In so far as these regulations improve the financial means by which the citizen can be legally advised and assisted, we on this side of the House most strongly welcome them.

The Lord Chancellor

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble and learned Lord for the kind way in which he has greeted this series of Motions. Yes, we acknowledge that a child's guide (if that is the right phrase) is desirable. We have reprinted the leaflets to correspond with the new regulations, so that anyone who runs may read. I doubt whether it is quite provender for primary school age yet, but we will do our best.

Yes, the Scottish formula is also 4.3 per cent. I agree with the noble and learned Lord that if it had not been there would have a terrific row; but I am told that all is well.

Yes, the population coverage is about 70 per cent. of households. I think it may be a little more rather than a little less. That has been maintained.

I ought to have the exact cost with me, and probably have, but I could not give it to the noble and learned Lord by looking in my papers in a hurry because he sat down so compendiously. But I thank the noble and learned Lord very much indeed.

On Question, Motion agreed to.