§ 2.55 p.m.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have considered and propose to take action on the Civic Trust's report on By-passes and the Juggernaut published on 4th August 1983.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, the Government regard the Civic Trust's report as a welcome and useful contribution to the consideration of the environmental impact of traffic. In developing the road programme we will continue giving high priority to roads bringing environmental relief and to by-passes in particular. Without taking into account our cross-country schemes, which relieve communities they pass, or local authority road schemes for which my department is not responsible, the trunk road programme in England has under construction 19 by-passes worth £100 million and nearly 150 more by-passes, worth £1,200 million, in preparation. The details are set out in the 1983 roads White Paper, published in September, Cmnd. 9059.
§ Lord EzraMy Lords, in thanking the noble Lord for that reply, I should like to ask him whether, taking into account the conclusions of both the Civic Trust's Report of this year and the Armitage Committee's Report of 1979, he will consider supporting the carrying out of comprehensive pilot studies in one or more counties to ascertain what measures can be taken either by the construction of by-passes or by other means to reduce the effect of heavy lorries on the environment? That is a question.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, we believe the Government's own comprehensive proposals for relieving communities on or near their own trunk roads of the heavy lorry nuisance, as it is sometimes described, as set out in the recent White Paper, would probably be the best way of proceeding in this matter. I am uncertain as yet therefore whether a pilot study of the sort suggested by the noble Lord is the best way of proceeding.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the suggestion from the noble Lord, Lord Ezra, is very 694 sensible? For example, if we just took the London Borough of Ealing or any other West London borough, the evidence of both expense and danger is already there. It merely has to be collected to help him.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I am not quite sure I follow the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Molloy. It appears to me that he is confusing the Government's responsibility for trunk and motorway roadways and those which are the responsibility of the local authorities, who are of course supported by the Government through the transport policies programme and the transport supplementary grants system.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, in view of the Minister's reply, may I ask him this. Will he confirm that the information and figures which are given in the document on policy for roads relate in the main to trunk roads, whereas the Civic Trust's report relates not only to trunk roads but to the primary routes which are referred to by the department as those previously extensively used by lorries? Does he accept, therefore, that the number of villages and towns without any plans for by-passes by the end of 1991–92 greatly exceeds the figures given in the document on policy for roads? Is this not very important in view of the fact that the Government were able to recommend the heavy lorries scheme on the promise that all villages and towns would be by-passed?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, of course the noble Lord, Lord Underhill, is right in the narrow view he ascribes to the roads policy document to which I have referred; and he will be the first to recognise that the criterion upon which the Civic Trust's report was based is different from that on which our own is based. There can be no doubt that different bodies will apply different criteria. The Civic Trust referred to towns and settlements of from between 500 persons to 150,000, whereas they would not necessarily come within the Governmental trunk road or by-pass programme. They could be the responsibility of the local authority, who, as I say, are supported and encouraged in building by-passes and other relief roads.
§ Lord GlenamaraMy Lords, in view of the very rosy picture which the Minister painted in his initial reply, can he say why the Government have set back indefinitely the bypassing of the village of Temple Sowerby in Cumbria, which is very well known to the Leader of the House? It is one of the most beautiful villages in Britain and is set directly on the A.66, which is the only cross-Pennine route between the M.62 and the A.69. Can the Government say why this has been set back?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, not without notice.