§ 2.49 p.m.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many persons from South Africa were sponsored by the British Council on visits to the United Kingdom in 1982, and of these, how many were European, African, Indian, and other ethnic origin, respectively.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, a total of 36 people from South Africa made short-term visits to the United Kingdom in 1982 under the British Council's sponsorship. The British Council do not select their visitors on the basis of their ethnic origin. Statistics on this point are therefore not available.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, while greatly admiring the work of the British Council in many respects, would not these figures, if made available, show great discrimination? Should it not be the policy of the British Council, in view of the opposition to apartheid by all parties in Parliament, to encourage those who are deprived of opportunities in South Africa due to their ethnic origin? If so, should not more of those invited, in this diversified population, represent those who are deprived?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, while the council does not record this information in its records, I would certainly imagine that most of the visitors were nonwhite. The British Council representative in South Africa selects visitors on the basis of their specialised interests and the potential benefits they may derive from observing at first hand the work of institutions and organisations in Britain corresponding to their own fields of interest and activities. I rely on the second part of my original Answer: that ethnic considerations do not enter into this particular field.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, is the noble Lord not aware that his first Answer is very unsatisfactory. Is it not the case that in South Africa every individual is classified, and is so classified in his or her passport, according to racial origins? Should it not, therefore, be perfectly simple for the British Council to supply the Minister with the information that my noble friend has asked for?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleSurely, my Lords, if they kept records, but I understand they do not.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, does not the evidence of teachers in South Africa, as well as such scholastic records as are available, show considerable potentialities in writing, music and the arts among Africans, Indians and those of the coloured population? Should not they be given the opportunity, being deprived of it in South Africa, of the developed facilities that there are in this country?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, they are given the opportunity and they are certainly not deprived of it in this country. As I have said, I think now twice in my answers this afternoon, ethnic considerations one way or the other do not enter into it.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, will the noble Lord confirm to the House that his department made specific inquiries on this matter of the British Council?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleYes, my Lords, most certainly they did, and the discoveries are as I have reported them this afternoon to the House.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, in so far as there is grave concern throughout the country, and I think there is also deep concern in this Chamber, regarding the central issue of my noble friend's Question, will the Minister please write to the senior authorities of the British Council in South Africa drawing their attention to this question and answer period this afternoon and asking them if they will be kind enough to provide their comments, which possibly he could then make as a statement in Hansard?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, I am not quite sure of the propriety of the latter suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Molloy. Nonetheless, I have no doubt that the British Council take great note of everything referring to them which is said in this House or in another place. If they do not see the particular Hansard of today, I shall make sure it is drawn to their attention.