§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they plan to introduce a pilot scheme for education vouchers covering both the maintained and private sectors and, if so, whether they have given due consideration to the cost implications and to the potential conflicts with existing statute law.
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, as my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has said elsewhere, he is considering vouchers as a means of extending parental choice and responsibility in education, and has yet to reach any conclusions.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for that reply. Will he undertake to bring to the attention of his right honourable friend during his considerations the effect of the deadweight cost of paying what would be, in effect, a subsidy for all those at present in private education, which would be offset by only very small marginal savings in the maintained sector? Furthermore, would he agree that such a move would probably lead to a very extensive rise in private education, thus removing resources from local authorities and making it almost impossible for them to fulfil their obligations under the 1944 Act?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I think the voucher scheme is still very much in the preliminary stage, and I would not like to say if my right honourable friend has considered whether or not the private sector would come into it. But, of course, I would say that any voucher scheme would require amending legislation, and, obviously, would also cause additional expenditure. The matter of additional expenditure must be considered in the context of any commensurate benefits that it would bring.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, would the noble Earl agree that, if such a scheme were introduced, it would have the harmful effect of commencing a division between the children of our nation and that, instead of working towards the great ideal of Disraeli of one nation, this would set us back to the days of two nations? Therefore, would he be prepared to consider making a recommendation to his right honourable friend that the proposal ought to be dropped in the interests of the country?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I think that that is a somewhat hypothetical question, as I do not believe there are any proposals at this moment.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, does my noble friend recall that the president of the party for which the noble Lord, Lord Kilmarnock, speaks was responsible, as a result of her attack on the grammar schools, for the opening of more independent schools than anybody in British history since His late Majesty King Henry VI?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I think that my noble friend has made a very valid point.
§ Baroness DavidMy Lords, if this voucher scheme were brought in, can the Minister say how it would agree with Section 6(3) (a) of the 1980 Act about parental choice, where the duty of giving parental choice does not apply,
if compliance with the preference would prejudice the provision of efficient education or the efficient use of resources"?Presumably, there would inevitably be a number of schools which were not fully used, and a number of expensive facilities which were not being used. I should very much like to hear what the answer is to that.
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I think that that is, yet again, a hypothetical question. As I said in an earlier reply, I imagine that legislation would be needed.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, would the noble Earl agree that the 1980 Act has already done away with zoning and requires LEAs to publish examination results and to increase parental choice and influence? Therefore, would he further agree that it is time to let the education service settle down and get on with the job?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I think that the 1980 Act has gone quite a long way in providing parental choice. Whether it has gone far enough is, I think, one of the questions being looked at.