HL Deb 23 March 1983 vol 440 cc1099-100

2.48 p.m.

The Earl of Selkirk

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they agree with the tenth finding of the recent inquiry into the water dispute, which recognises that "wherever possible payment should be made by cheque or credit transfer."

The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Earl Ferrers)

My Lords, the findings of the committee of inquiry are a matter for the parties concerned. Cashless pay offers considerable advantages and, on 10th March 1983, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Employment issued a consultative document setting out proposals for updating the law on the payment of wages, with a view to encouraging the greater use of non-cash methods of payment.

The Earl of Selkirk

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for emphasising the importance to industry that a step of this character could have. Does he understand that, unless the Government take some steps, progress in this field will be very slow? Can he at least give a full assurance that bank accounts are private between the depositor and the bank and cannot be seen by spouses, whether male or female?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I can give my noble friend the assurance that the Government will do what they can to encourage the use of cashless pay. But there is no intention of compelling people to accept cashless pay if they do not wish to do so. As regards the rights of spouses to inspect their other spouses' accounts, that is fairly wide of the original Question, but I think that the noble Earl is quite right.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Government's attitude of caution in this matter, in seeking all possible consultation, is one that commands the support of us on this side of the House? There are many complications, some of which may not yet have been thought of, and it is desirable that the widest possible consultation should be held before any definitive steps are taken.

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, for those remarks. He is aware that the Government are, at the moment, in the process of consulting with both the TUC and the CBI, and there is a measure of agreement that the existing state of affairs is not satisfactory, How it is improved will, of course, result from those discussions.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, is the phrase "cashless pay" a little discouraging?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, it is certainly very unpleasant, but it is accurate. I hope that it might be found to be a better phrase than what the noble and learned Lord insinuates.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, would my noble friend agree that cheques will be preferable owing to the weight of the new £1, which will no doubt cause gentlemen's pockets and ladies' handbags to weigh a great deal more than they have done previously?

Earl Ferrers

Of course, my Lords, credit transfers would be even lighter.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, would the Government agree that, while it is clearly desirable to consult the TUC and the CBI, yet it might in the case of this industry now, and of other industries later, as this policy continues, be a good thing if the Government could find some means of consulting precisely the spouses, because without that there is no means of knowing what they think about the changeover to cashless pay? Is it not the case that, in the legal and social structure of our country, wives tend to be dependent, and this should not go without consideration?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, as 44 per cent. of all employees in the country at the moment are paid by cash, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Kennet, would accept that there would be some difficulty over consulting all spouses.