HL Deb 11 March 1983 vol 440 cc424-5

11.14 a.m.

Baroness Elliot of Harwood

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what has been the total value of the economies made in local government by manpower savings.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, since May 1979 local authority manpower in Great Britain has decreased by some 112,000 full time equivalents of 4.7 per cent. The value of the economies made by manpower reductions cannot be separately calculated.

Baroness Elliot of Harwood

My Lords, I thank my noble friend very much for that reply. I know how very difficult it is to reduce the staff in many local authorities, but I would congratulate him on the fact that this trend, anyway, is going in the right direction and possibly will go further as time goes on.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that praise of the Government, but I should point out that there is currently a hiccup in the reductions and we, like my noble friend, are trying extremely hard to continue with these.

Lord Bishopston

My Lords, before the hiccups extend too far and the praise gets out of hand, will the Minister say what economies have been made in the higher reaches of the manpower services in local government? Can he say to what extent the savings are offset by the costs of unemployment and other benefits concerned? Have the Government assessed the social consequences of not spending money on some very essential services?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, it is not the Government's intention, and never has been, to reduce the local authorities' manpower to unpalatable levels. As we heard just now, the manpower reductions have occurred in education as regards lecturers, teachers and administrators because of the falling school population; as regards refuse collection, through contracting out, and also in construction and miscellaneous services affecting mainly the town hall staff. I am advised that manpower is not homogeneous; it ranges from the low-paid manuals through to chief executives, although, to the best of my knowledge and belief, no chief executives have been made redundant.

Lord Bishopston

My Lords, could the Minister say what is meant by the word "palatable"?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, not unpalatable.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, has the unpalatable produced the hiccups?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, not at this early hour.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, when the noble Lord talks about the falling school population because of the drop in the birth rate, do the Government have any plans in mind to remedy this situation?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I rather think that we went through that subject on the previous Question.