HL Deb 27 July 1983 vol 443 cc1538-40

3.24 p.m.

Lord Harris of High Cross

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will contemplate the repeal of the Shops Act following the mixed fortunes of recent private members' Bills in the two Houses.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)

My Lords, we are not contemplating such a repeal at present; but my right honourable and learned friend the Home Secretary is considering the options for resolving the present disagreement about reform of the law on trading which is contained in the Shops Act 1950, and hopes to make an announcement shortly.

Lord Harris of High Cross

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that rather qualified Answer. May I draw his attention to the fact that when this matter was debated in this House and elsewhere there were enormous expressions on all sides of the need to reform or repeal the Shops Act? If there is any doubt about the matter and the urgency of it, will the Government draw on the unrivalled experience of the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, who was recently abducted from our repeal group to ornament the Government Benches as a Baroness in Waiting?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I am, indeed, aware of the strong views on all sides on this matter in both Houses and the fact that they are in conflict. That is why we are having considerations. I am glad that the noble Lord like myself is aware of the sterling work of my noble friend Lady Trumpington who has now been recruited to our ranks.

Lord Jacques

My Lords, will the Minister ask his right honourable and learned friend to bear in mind that both the employees and the employers in the distributive industry have asked for an inquiry before there is any radical change in shop law? They believe that one should consider the long-term future. Both sides have promised to give the fullest co-operation.

Lord Elton

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his intervention. There are both the employers and the employees, as well as the consumers, to consider in this matter.

Lord Bishopston

My Lords, will the Minister recognise that the noble Baroness is not the only one in waiting for changes in the law? May I stress the relevance of the noble Lord's Question relating to the need for a review of the Shops Act in the light of changing circumstances? Will the Minister, recognising the effects on the British way of life and, in particular, family life, give an assurance that there will be widespread consultation with the trade, the trade unions, the local authorities, the churches and other bodies? Finally, will the Government give what help they can to ensure that the legislation produced is soundly drafted and adequate to the circumstances?

Lord Elton

My Lords, my right honourable and learned friend is always very careful and thorough in his reflections. We always make it a point never to bring in legislation that is not soundly drafted and effective.

Lord Simon of Glaisdale

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the criticisms of the trading restrictions go far beyond Sunday trading? If there is to be an inquiry, will he ensure that it covers the whole ground in the same manner that was covered by the Gowers Committee without effective action being taken?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the subject of my right honourable and learned friend's consideration is the Shops Act which of course goes beyond Sunday trading. I will bring the noble and learned Lord's other concerns to my right honourable and learned friend's attention.

Lord Monson

My Lords, will the Minister say why, when the Government have a majority of 144 in another place, they are still evidently intimidated by minority pressure groups, and why in view of majority public opinion they do not introduce a Government Bill to bring the English shops Act into line with the far more liberal and more appropriate Acts prevailing in Scotland?

Lord Elton

My Lords, it is our custom to consider the wishes of all the people concerned. In this case, it refers to all the people in this country who may wish or may not wish to be able to buy certain things on Sundays and at other times of the week. I do not think that it would be right to proceed precipitately. I think that my right honourable and learned friend is taking the right course.

Lord Bishopston

My Lords, in view of the fact that the Minister is reluctant to make any changes where there is not complete agreement on legislation, may I ask him whether he will ensure that the same principle applies to other aspects of our legislation?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the disagreement in this case appears to lie between the Houses rather than parties and between members of parties rather than the parties. I do not think that the noble Lord can expect me to respond in any helpful way to his question.