Wheel Clamps: Police Instructions (Hansard, 26 July 1983)

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, a comprehensive instruction on the operation of the experimental wheel clamping scheme in force in parts of central London was issued by the Metropolitan Police on 12th May this year. I understand that since the scheme came into operation the commissioner has obtained legal advice which suggests that wheel clamping contravenes the provisions of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. A further instruction was accordingly issued on 28th June that wheel clamping of identifiable diplomatic vehicles should be discontinued. The position on this is, however, being examined further.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, before these instructions were issued was there any consultation with the motoring organisations and with the GLC? In the light of some reports of unfortunate incidents, which would appear to have been better treated by fixed penalty notices, can there be some interim discussions with those organisations without waiting for the final report? Does the Minister appreciate how disappointed the House was when his noble friend replied to a supplementary question last week concerning diplomats and their cars? The question which I put, and which was not answered, was: if it is not permissible to put wheel clamps on diplomatic cars, does that mean that such cars cannot be moved even if they are in a very dangerous position?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, on the first part of the noble Lords's supplementary question, if he feels that the consultations were in any way inadequate I can say that I am certain that the views which the organisations wish to put forward on what is an experiment will be taken careful note of. On the second part of his supplementary question the answer is, No. Where a diplomatic vehicle is causing an obstruction or is a danger it can be towed away.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend the Minister whether there is any evidence that these cumbrous engines of inert frustration contribute in any way the the movement of traffic in the metropolis? May I further respectfully ask whether on present experience there is any evidence that this candle is worth the price of the tallow?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, this is an experiment. The purpose of the experiment is to answer both my noble friend's supplementary questions.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, will the noble Lord agree that these clamps give the police a right to impose a pretty heavy penalty on arbitrarily selected members of the public who park their cars on a yellow line or something of that sort? Does he also agree that this ought to be watched very carefully? The instructions as to the circumstances in which the penalty is used should be published and made available to the public. It should be confined to the kind of case in which the motorist is defying the public. For example, a gentleman who has had half a dozen parking tickets and simply burnt them, or others like the man who the other day when going away on holiday found that the cheapest way to park his car for a tenner was to put it in a public parking 1428 meter place. This penalty should not be applied in the ordinary case of a motorist who has left his car parked for a bit too long.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the actual penalty is a fixed penalty of £10 to which is added the cost of the operation at £19.50. As to the arbitrary nature of its imposition, the penalty is imposed only on those who are breaking the law. It is not possible for the constable or traffic warden to indentify cars for which six parking tickets have already been torn up. I recognise that there is a good deal of feeling about the issue. This is why it is an experimental exercise which will be reviewed next spring.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that his statement that the position of diplomats is being looked at further will be widely welcomed? Is he also aware that in some cases these wheel clamps are imposed on the cars of people who have simply overstayed on a meter, and that surely is an exaggeration?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I would not wish to comment on individual circumstances but I shall certainly take my noble friend's concern to my right honourable friend.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, is the Minister aware that, despite the hard cases that may come out of this device, the general idea of imposing some further means of deterrence on motorists who consistently break the law in this respect is very much in the interests of the general public in helping traffic flow? Will my noble friend therefore persist with this experiment and, despite any criticism that may come, wait until we have had at least 12 month's working before taking a considered view of its value?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, my noble friend—as always—gives very wise advice.

§ Lord McCluskey
My Lords, the Minister has referred to advice received that putting clamps on the cars of diplomats contravenes the Vienna Convention. Is he prepared, first, to tell the House from what source the advice was obtained; and, secondly, to put a copy of it in the Library so that lawyers in the House, among others, may study it to decide whether or not it is good advice?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the legal advice came from legal advisers. I am confident that it is sound.

§ Lord McCluskey
My Lords, is the Minister aware that there are good legal advisers and bad legal advisers? Will he face the point that some of us, bad and good, would like to look at the advice to see whether or not it is misconceived?

Noble Lords
Hear, Hear!

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the more legal advisers we have, the more likely it is that there will be a conflict of views. I can assure the noble Lord that the advice I have is coherent among advisers. As to the protocal—if I can use such a diplomatic term in these 1429 circumstances—of placing a copy of the advice in the Libray, I would have to take advice on that.

§ Lord McCluskey
My Lords, as the Minister cannot answer my questions today, would he kindly write to me and give me the answers?

§ Lord Elton
Indeed, my Lords.

§ Lord Moyne
My Lords, would it not be wise for diplomataic cars to be clamped until the driver can come to prove his identity and his immunity? Would it not be probable—perhaps I am being ironical—that on discussing the matter with the police he, being a diplomat and a responsible person, would move his car to some sensible and legitimate place?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, apart from any legal consideration, one of the difficulties would be keeping somebody by the motor car until the diplomat returned to it. There is considerable concern about the whole question of diplomatic immunity in this area. It is the practice for the details of every alleged offence to be brought to the attention of the appropriate head of mission. This is done every month. I do not doubt that the members of those missions will be aware of the concern that your Lordships have expressed.