§ 6.42 p.m.
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, these regulations provide for the enforcement of the Community requirements governing the levying of a charge equivalent to the 1479 sheep variable premium (known as "clawback") on slaughter sheep and sheepmeat removed from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. The background to the regulations, as your Lordships may be aware, is that the sheep variable premium ceased to operate in Northern Ireland in May 1982. This step had to be taken because substantial numbers of lambs were being smuggled into the Republic of Ireland across the land border, in order to evade payment of' clawback, and this put at risk considerable amounts of FEOGA money. Farmers in Northern Ireland now receive support (to the same guaranteed level) only through the annual premium on ewes, and there is no longer any need to enforce clawback on the Irish land border.
Because of this change, clawback is payable on slaughter sheep or sheepmeat removed from Great Britain, where variable premium is still paid, to Northern Ireland. In practice there is no such trade at present, because of Northern Ireland's higher animal health status. Nevertheless, the framework of control provided by the regulations is necessary, both because of the possibility of eventual changes to the animal health rules and also, more immediately, to deal with illegal movements of sheepmeat from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. This second point is an urgent one, since there have been a few cases where meat has been smuggled and discovered by the authorities in Northern Ireland and the Republic. We are concerned to put a stop to smuggling both in order to safeguard FEOGA revenues and to prevent a potential threat to Northern Ireland's animal health status. These regulations will provide controls in Great Britain which will reinforce those already provided by animal health inspectors in Northern Ireland.
Should any legitimate trade arise, these regulations will allow the intervention board to require notice to be given of intended shipments and to require a security against clawback in accordance with the Community rules. The immediate value of these regulations will be in helping to counter illegal trade by providing officers of the Intervention Board and the agriculture departments with preventive and investigatory powers when they have reasonable suspicion of an illegal' movement. By "an illegal movement" I mean an illegal movement between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Offences are created of failing to comply with the regulations, and the appropriate maximum penalties are set.
In the ways I have sought to outline, these regulations will help to prevent the illegal movement of sheepmeat from Great Britain to Northern Ireland to evade clawback, and will also permit the effective operation of the clawback arrangements in the event of any future change in the animal health position. With these regulations in place, we shall be able to ensure that we will do all we can to prevent illegal traffic. My Lords, I beg to move.
§ Moved, That the draft regulations laid before the House on 13th May be approved.—(Lord Belstead.)
§ Lord John-MackieMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord. Lord Belstead, for explaining the reasons for these regulations. It is very obvious from Northern Ireland's long border with Southern Ireland and the difficulties that have arisen in the past 1480 that the regulations are necessary, although the noble Lord said there might not be too much need for them but if a trade did arise they would be there to control it.
May I ask the noble Lord one or two questions regarding the regulations? On page 3 it says:
No person shall remove, or attempt to remove",withoutWhat does "the security" mean? Is it financial security? It is mentioned again on page 5, and I should like to know exactly what is meant by "the security". Also, will this give a lot of extra work to officials? It would appear that a great deal of extra work might be entailed for officials in the Ministry. As we know, their number is being cut down as it is, and I wonder how much extra work there might be. The noble Lord mentioned that there has been quite a lot of avoidance of the clawback, and, of course, with the variable premium having been stopped, I wonder whether he could say how much this has cost in the past.
- "(a) a removal declaration; and
- (b)the security".
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, so far as extra work is concerned, I am not aware this will cause an addition to manpower although for some hardworking members of the public service it might create some extra work. But, of course, it really is necessary, as I sought to point out and as the noble Lord was good enough to accept in his opening remarks, if the Community status of the sheepmeat regime in Northern Ireland is to work. Therefore, if there is to be extra work because of this I think it has to be faced. I trust it will not lead to extra manpower.
The noble Lord asked me specifically about the use of the word "security". Security to cover the clawback charge is required by the European Community regulations, and I think I referred to that towards the end of my opening remarks. The noble Lord asked me whether I could give an estimate as to what this had cost in terms of losses. I am afraid I have not got a figure for this at all, but I think the noble Lord would agree with me that it has been most undesirable that this state of affairs should have existed. Where there may have been losses of funds in the past, sometimes those funds have got into the wrong hands in Northern Ireland, and I hope very much that this particular set of regulations will put us on a much better financial basis as between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.