HL Deb 25 July 1983 vol 443 cc1370-4

2.58 p.m.

Viscount Whitelaw rose to move, That this House approves the following proposals with respect to expenses incurred by Lords and their families after 30th June 1983—

  1. (1) The limits on the expenses which Lords may recover under the Resolution of 22nd July 1980 shall be—
    1. (a) for paragraph (1)(a) of the Resolution (day subsistence and incidental travel), £16.00 for each day of attendance;
    2. (b) for paragraph (1)(c) (overnight subsistence), £40.00 for each day of attendance;
    3. (c) for paragraph (1)(d) (secretarial allowance), £17.00 multiplied by the number of days of attendance falling within paragraph (1)(a);
    4. (d) for paragraph (3) (office holders' secretarial allowance), £2,000 in any year.
  2. (2) Members of this House who are disabled shall be enabled to recover additional expenses of attending this House incurred by them on account of their disablement.
  3. (3) The cost of all travel by Lords which is within the United Kingdom and on Parliamentary business shall be re-imbursed or qualify for payment of the car mileage allowance.
  4. (4) The facilities from time to time available to Members of the House of Commons under which the cost of travel by the spouses and children of Members of that House between London and the Member's constituency or ordinary residence is re-imbursed or qualifies for car mileage allowance shall, in the case of any Lord whose ordinary residence is outside Greater London and who either—
    1. (a) receives a salary under the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975, or
    2. (b) is the Chairman of Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees.
    be made available in respect of travel between London and that residence by that Lord's spouse and children.
  5. (5) The rate of car mileage allowance available to Members of this House shall, for journeys commenced on or after 1st October 1983, continue to be 25.8p per mile, notwithstanding any change with effect from that date in the relevant Civil Service rate of car mileage allowance.

The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I beg to move the first of the two related Motions standing in my name on the Order Paper. It may be for the convenience of the House if I speak to both Motions together.

The first Motion provides for increases in the limits on the expenses which noble Lords may recover in respect of their attendance at the House, together with several other improvements in the existing arrangements. Apart from the fifth paragraph of the Motion, all the proposed changes stem from the report of the Review Body on Top Salaries. That report, A Review of Parliamentary Pay and Allowances, was published last May, just before the dissolution of Parliament. Those of your Lordships who have studied the chapter of the report dealing with Peers' expenses will already be aware of the careful and thorough consideration which the review body, under the chairmanship of the noble Lord. Lord Plowden, gave to a wide variety of suggestions.

The Government have accepted all the recommendations made by the review body on Peers' expenses. One of those recommendations was that, in order to underline the nature of payments made to Peers, the expression Peers' Expenses Allowance should be replaced by Peers' Reimbursement Allowance. This change can be introduced without formality, and for that reason does not appear in the Motion which is before your Lordships. It is, I am sure your Lordships will agree, a helpful change. It is a widespread misconception that the allowance is a fixed rate rather than a limit within which expenditure may be reimbursed.

A second recommendation of the review body was for a payment equivalent to three months' salary to be made to Ministers and paid office holders in the House of Lords who cease to hold office, for whatever reason, after serving for not less than two years and before they have reached the normal retirement age of 65. As far as Ministers are concerned, this recommendation will require legislation, which will be introduced at the earliest possible opportunity. For the Chairman and Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees, the recommendation can be implemented without legislation. The Offices Committee have already agreed that it should be implemented; and your Lordships will shortly be asked to approve their recommendation.

The remaining recommendations on Peers' expenses are all incorporated in the first four paragraphs of the Motion on the Order Paper. In each case the changes proposed are to be backdated to 30th June.

The first paragraph raises the limits on the expenses which noble Lords may claim in respect of attendance at the House. The element for day subsistence and incidental travel is raised from £12.10 to £16.00 for each day of attendance. The element for overnight subsistence is raised from £25.40 to £40.00, and the secretarial allowance from £11.00 to £17.00. Finally, the annual secretarial allowance for office holders is raised from £1,300 to £2,000.

The second paragraph introduces for the first time a valuable element of flexibility into the arrangements. It provides that disabled Members of the House may recover additional expenses of attending this House incurred on account of disablement. The operation of this arrangement will be at the discretion of the Leave of Absence and Lords' Expenses Committee, and I understand that the Committee will shortly be considering what criteria should be applied.

The third paragraph provides that Lords may be reimbursed for all travel in the United Kingdom on Parliamentary business, and not just for travel between home and Westminster, as at present. This will mean that Members of this House will be able to recover travel expenses on the same basis as Members of the House of Commons.

The fourth paragraph of the Motion will enable the families of Ministers and other paid office holders in the House of Lords who have their main home outside London to travel between that home and Westminster at public expense, on the same basis as the families of Members of the House of Commons. At present this entitlement is to 15 return journeys each year.

The first four paragraphs of the Motion implement in full the various recommendations of the Review Body relating to Peers' expenses. The fifth and last paragraph, which was added last Thursday to the Motion already on the Order Paper, is intended to keep the car mileage allowance payable in this House in line with that payable to Members of the House of Commons. At present the allowance is regulated by a resolution agreed to by this House on 29th July 1975. That resolution provided that the rate should be the same as the Civil Service rate for cars over 1,750 cc used for journeys on official business. From next October a two-tier structure is to be introduced for the Civil Service mileage allowance. The full rate, currently 25.8 pence per mile, will be payable only for the first 9,000 miles in any financial year. Thereafter, a reduced rate, currently fixed at 14 pence per mile, will be paid.

My right honourable friend the Lord Privy Seal undertook in another place last Tuesday night that there would be an investigation into the proposed Civil Service two-tier arrangements to see how appropriate they were to Members of Parliament. He said—and I quote from col. 325 of the Commons Hansard: I shall ensure that that investigation is concluded speedily, that the findings of the inquiry are made available to Parliament and that the present motor mileage arrangements will stand until the House has authorised any replacement. The Government believe it is also right that the mileage arrangements for Peers should stand until the findings of the inquiry have been considered. The fifth paragraph of the Motion before the House will therefore preserve the same position in this House. Once the investigation is concluded, I shall if necessary table a further Motion to ensure that the arrangements remain the same in both Houses.

The Government have accepted all the recommendations made by the review body on Peers' expenses. Several are designed to provide the means whereby your Lordships can perform your Parliamentary duties with greater effectiveness. Others will alleviate the risks and burdens associated with holding office in this House. I believe that the proposals which are now before the House will contribute positively to its effective functioning.

I turn now to the second Motion in my name, a Motion to approve the draft Ministerial and other Salaries Order. The order which I am now asking your Lordships to approve was laid before the House only last Thursday, in substitution for another order laid on 13th July. I must apologise to the House for the very short time which your Lordships have had to study the order; but I am sure that your Lordships will appreciate why the Government wished to revise the order in the light of decisions made in another place last Tuesday night.

The original order dealt only with the pay of Ministers and other office holders for one year. But following the expression of opinion in another place last Tuesday that the salaries of Members should be established specifically for the period up to the end of 1987, the Government considered that the same arrangement should be made for the salaries of Ministers and other office holders. Thus the order now before the House makes such provision.

The report of the Review Body on Top Salaries, like the original order, was also concerned only with the pay of Ministers and other office holders in the year ahead. That report recommended increases between 18 and 71 per cent., and averaging 34.8 per cent., for, as I have said, one year only, namely 1983–84. As I indicated in a Written Answer on 14th July, the Government consider that these recommendations are too high.

The details of the Government's new proposals on salaries up until the end of 1987 were set out in the Written Answer which I gave on 21st July. Perhaps a word of explanation would be helpful. From the date on which the Privy Council approves the order, the increase for Lords' Ministers in the Cabinet will be 4 per cent. The increase for Junior Ministers in the Lords will he precisely the same as that given to their colleagues in the Commons; namely, 4.7 per cent. for Ministers of State and 5.4 per cent. for Parliamentary Secretaries. Other office holders in this House will receive increases of either 4.7 per cent. or 5.4 per cent, in line with their opposite numbers in another place. The average increase for all Ministers and office holders from 27th July 1983 will be 4.7 per cent.

Thereafter, on 1st January each year, beginning in 1984 and running to January 1987, all Ministers and office holders in both Houses will receive precisely the same percentage increases as Members in another place.

I confess that a solution whereby Ministers and office holders in this House end up with exactly the same percentage increase as their opposite numbers in another place has required quite complicated calculations, given that those same colleagues in another place receive a Parliamentary salary, and Ministers and office holders in this House do not. But the Government believe that the outcome is a just one in all the circumstances. I commend these proposals to the House, and I beg to move the first Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.

Moved, That this House approves the following proposals with respect to expenses incurred by Lords and their families after 30th June 1983—

  1. (1) The limits on the expenses which Lords may recover under the Resolution of 22nd July 1980 shall be—
    1. (a) for paragraph (1)(a) of the Resolution (day subsistence and incidental travel), £16.00 for each day of attendance;
    2. (b) for paragraph (1)(c) (overnight subsistence), £40.00 for each day of attendance;
    3. (c) for paragraph (1)(d) (secretarial allowance), £17.00 multiplied by the number of days of attendance falling within paragraph (1)(a);
    4. (d) for paragraph (3) (office holders' secretarial allowance). £2,000 in any year.
  2. (2) Members of this House who are disabled shall be enabled to recover additional expenses of attending this House incurred by them on account of their disablement.
  3. (3) The cost of all travel by Lords which is within 1374 the United Kingdom and on Parliamentary business shall be re-imbursed or qualify for payment of the car mileage allowance.
  4. (4) The facilities from time to time available to Members of the House of Commons under which the cost of travel by the spouses and children of Members of that House between London and the Member's constituency or ordinary residence is reimbursed or qualifies for car mileage allowance shall, in the case of any Lord whose ordinary residence is outside Greater London and who either—
    1. (a) receives a salary under the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975, or
    2. (b) is the Chairman or Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees,
    be made available in respect of travel between London and that residence by that Lord's spouse and children.
  5. (5) The rate of car mileage allowance available to Members of this House shall, for journeys commenced on or after 1st October 1983, continue to be 25.8p per mile, notwithstanding any change with effect from that date in the relevant Civil Service rate of car mileage allowance.—(Viscount Whitelaw.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.