HL Deb 21 July 1983 vol 443 cc1247-8

3.10 p.m.

Lord Mayhew

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have proposals for a referendum on electoral reform; or whether they propose to introduce legislation for this purpose.

Lord Elton

My Lords, I have nothing to add to the reply I gave to the noble Lord yesterday.

Lord Mayhew

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, even before the launching yesterday of the Campaign for Fair Votes, the opinion polls showed a large majority in favour of proportional representation and an even larger majority in favour of a referendum? Is he aware that, if the majority of MPs rejected both of these demands and insisted on deciding how they themselves were elected, and chose the electoral system most convenient to themselves and their parties, this would be an outrage and a kind of political curruption?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the elected representatives of the people are doing what they were elected to do. They are choosing how to run this country and the electoral system. Seventy per cent, of them voted against the parties which want proportional representation, and I see nothing unjust in that.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that to adhere to what is suggested in this Question would mean the Government abdicating their responsibilities? They won the election on the very clear understanding that they would preserve the tried and trusted system which has served this country successfully over very many years. A referendum gives an alibi to a Government and no Government—

Noble Lords

Speech!

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that to give a Government an alibi by referring to a referendum weakens the power which a Government can have? They have a responsibility for success or failure which should be clearly seen.

Lord Elton

My Lords, first, as to a referendum, a referendum works only if you can ask one straight, simple question to which the answer is yes or no. That cannot be the case with proportional representation, because there are so many different sorts. The Government believe that they are standing in the path of a hallowed national tradition, which is respected by all except those who feel that they could gain political advantage by changing it.

Lord Ingrow

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the real outrage requiring electoral reform relates to those people who, because they are away on holiday, are not able or cannot afford to change their holiday, cannot vote in a general election? Can my noble friend give an assurance that all citizens will have a democratic right to vote at the next general election?

Lord Elton

My Lords, if my noble friend likes to ask me such a question, I shall answer it, but it is a different one from the one that I am answering now.