HL Deb 20 July 1983 vol 443 cc1158-9

2.56 p.m.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, as legislation would not be involved, they will accept the suggestion that codes of practice governing the relationship between consumers and nationalised industries should be formulated in each industry in consultation with the responsible consumer council; and that these should be given adequate publicity.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, our published proposals for NICC reform explicitly recognise the value of codes of practice in the nationalised industries, and the scope for action by the consumer councils in relation to them.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, can the Minister say how many of the nationalised industries have a recognised code of practice which has been agreed with the consumer council concerned?

Lord Lyell

Certainly, my Lords—two. I have one here—gas and electricity. I have another one for telecommunications and a third for the Post Office. If there are any more I shall ascertain which they are and inform the noble Baroness.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

Yes, my Lords, but surely it is the Minister's job to know whether there are any more, and I am asking him a question. May I ask him whether he would tell the House which nationalised industries do not yet have an agreed code of practice with the consumer council concerned?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I could not do that without notice, because, as the noble Baroness and your Lordships will be aware, there are 43 different consumer councils covering all the sectors of the nationalised industries. But I shall ascertain the answer to the noble Baroness's question as to the ones which have not yet agreed a code of practice and will write to the noble Baroness.

Lord Ezra

My Lords, may I, as someone who has been on the other side of the fence so far as consumer councils are concerned, put it to the noble Lord the Minister that it is highly desirable that we should take this question of consumer representation very seriously, because I believe that the enterprises themselves can gain a great deal by having a responsible, well-organised consumer organisation to help them run their affairs effectively?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, the noble Lord puts the case much better than I could. Indeed, the Government take this question of consumer representation very seriously, as has been borne out by frequent Answers to the noble Baroness, and indeed by Answers to other Questions in your Lordships' House.

Baroness Elliot of Harwood

My Lords, does the noble Lord realise that this Question began way back, about 10 or 12 years ago, when I was chairman of the first consumer council and that it has been kept on the Order Paper for a very long time, notably by the noble Baroness? It would be a great advantage both to industry and to the public if this matter were dealt with far more swiftly. There is no suggestion that it is easy to do, but it can be done and, on the whole, I think that the Government are in favour of it. Can the noble Lord speed this thing up?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, indeed the Government take this question very seriously and, as I am sure my noble friend is aware, my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Department of Trade and Industry is hoping very shortly to receive proposals from the various NICCs—that particular term was explained by my noble friend Lord Belstead about a fortnight ago.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, did I understand the Minister to say that there are some 42 or 43 consumer councils for the nationalised industries? That seems to be rather a lot. Can the Minister state whether that is what he said? And may I ask him to answer the second part of my question, as to whether the Government will give adequate publicity to those codes of practice which are already in existence?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I can confirm to the noble Baroness that my instructions are that there are 43 nationalised industry consumer councils for which the Department of Trade and Industry has responsibility. As for the second point which the noble Baroness raised, the Government believe that the best form of publicity for these councils should be agreed between the nationalised industries and the relevant consumer council in each particular sector. The best examples I believe are the three which have already been mentioned today.