Overseas Development Administration: Scientific Units (Hansard, 4 July 1983)

Lord Oram
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)
My Lords, the Foreign Affairs Committee in another place has recently reported on an inquiry into the Overseas Development Administration's scientific units. The report is being studied and the Government will reply in due course.

Lord Oram
My Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for that reply I would ask her whether it is not the case that the report to which she refers makes it clear that these institutes are under a threat of a cut in their resources. Will she bear in mind that over many years these institutes have been a very valuable British instrument in the fight against world hunger? Will she, in the new position which she occupies, even at this late hour try to ensure that that does not happen? Will she try to do something before the debate in this House on Wednesday of next week (which is to be introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Seebohm) about world 443 hunger, so that she is not on that occasion placed in the position of making the Government's usual sympathetic noises about world hunger against a background of unsympathetic action?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I should like to confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Oram, that of course the Government greatly value these institutes and the work that they do. I realise that it is disappointing to him, but I regret that I am unable to give him the kind of response which he would like today, because my right honourable friends the Secretary of State and the Minister for Overseas Development are still considering their reponse. But, as I have already indicated to him, we shall get a response to the report as soon as is practicable, and, of course, the sort of remarks which he has made will be taken into account.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, will the noble Baroness be good enough to emphasise to her right honourable friend during his consideration of this matter that the all party Foreign Affairs Committee in another place was scathing in its criticism of the report of the noble Lord, Lord Rayner, in this matter? Is she further aware that there is not a tittle of evidence that these units have been inefficient but that, on the contrary, they have made an enormous contribution to poorer countries, out of all proportion to the relatively small sum of money which Her Majesty's Government contribute towards their work?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I have of course read the report from another place. As I have already indicated, my right honourable friend will be making a considered response to it. On the question of costs and efficiency, again I could not comment on the details of this but, as someone who has had some responsibility for the scrutinies that have been conducted throughout the whole of government, I should like to confirm that, as part of the Government's policy for reducing the size of the Civil Service, every single department had to take some cuts, of which the scientific units were one. The scrutinies were designed to look carefully to see how these might most sensibly and properly be achieved.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, would the noble Baroness take care to ensure that ideology does not replace common sense in the Government's consideration?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that common sense is never apart from the Government's consideration of any matter at all, but on a lot of things it is very important to identify what the true costs are: not what people think the costs are but what they really are.

§ Lord Beaumont of Whitley
My Lords, will the Government bear in mind that this is possibly not a case for an ideological stand and that a great many Governments prefer to deal with the departments of our Government, knowing that they are extremely efficient and have no particular axe to grind? Will the Government bear that in mind when coming to their decision?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I recognise that these departments have made a very great contribution in this country and the world and that those who have worked for them have made their contribution, too. I should like to place on record my support for those who work for them and for the Civil Service in general. But that does not in any way invalidate what I have said in other comments. I hope that the noble Lord will wait until he hears the considered response on this matter.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that these units have played, and are playing, a crucial role in the attack on such diseases as bilhartzia, tsetse fly and malaria, which attack both people and animals? Is she further aware that the present budget for the units is only £6.7 million this year, which is much less than 1 per cent. of the total aid budget, much of which is also paid to British people and British firms? Could she not at least urge her colleagues that this is not a suitable institution to include in the Government's cuts.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I have already indicated the value that we place on these institutes. I am quite sure that my right honourable friend, when he comes to respond, will take into account the points that have been made in your Lordships' House.