The Public Library Service (Hansard, 14 December 1983)

§ Baroness David
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Minister of State, Privy Council Office, and Minister for the Arts (The Earl of Gowrie)
My Lords, over the last five-year period for which actual figures are available, the book stock in public libraries in England increased by about 4 million volumes, the number of service points increased by 2,000 and the number of staff in post by over 500. Annual book issues increased by some 19 million. The Government will continue to support the provision by local authorities of a vigorous and efficient public library system within the limit of available resources.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Does he agree that the number of books issued and the amount of stock does not bear any relation to the number of new books bought? Does he also agree that individual authorities have made cuts of over 30 per cent., over 40 per cent. and over 50 per cent. in their book funds over the past five years? Is he aware that 97 of 119 library authorities have made some cut back? The books that have been in the library for some time of course will be more tatty and not really of very good quality.

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, I should not for a moment seek to deny that libraries have had to make—as indeed they should make—their fair share of economies, and that the service has had increased pressure on it in recent years. Nevertheless, I deplore the habit—which is not restricted across this section of the economy in recent years—of describing increases as cuts.

§ Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge
My Lords, am I to understand from what the noble Earl said that he does not accept that there has been a serious diminution in the supply of books available to the public through public libraries? My information is entirely contrary to his.

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, as I said, the pressure on book funds is there as, indeed, pressure on all public funding is there. But that does not mean to say that there has not been very creditable and good management within resources by the library service, which continues to be an admirable service to the public.

§ Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge
My Lords, nobody criticises the management of the libraries. What we are criticising is the management of the Government. I wish the noble Earl would get that clear in his mind.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl what the position is concerning the new British Library project and building? Is this to be the subject of Government cuts?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, that is rather wide of the present Question. As the noble Lord is aware, however, the Government have a manifesto commitment to the British Library, and I hope to be able to announce figures in terms of the next tranche of spending within the next few days.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware of the deteriorating condition of the library services in Northern Ireland? Is he aware that the library committee of the area board of Belfast has a dilemma: either to leave the 21 local libraries in being with greatly reduced services, or to cut by half the number of those local libraries, mainly in the central areas? Would it not be a tragedy if those areas which were suffering from the present conditions had that kind of cut, particularly as one-third of the book issues are to young people? Could the Government possibly help by taking over the cost of the reference library which acts as a regional service and has 1,000 users a day?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, I was not aware of what the noble Lord told me. But as someone with a great interest in Northern Ireland, I am quite happy to take that up with my colleagues.

§ Viscount Eccles
My Lords, is it not a fact that the price of books, journals and newspapers has actually gone up faster than the price of other things and that of course has made a big difference? Will my noble friend inquire whether the inter-library lending is as good as it might be and will he also consider whether more newspapers could he put on to microfilm and therefore not have the cost of storing and buying them?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, my noble friend is quite right in that there has been pressure of course on the library service as a result of the above-average rate of inflation of book prices in recent years. I shall look into the interesting suggestion he makes about putting newspapers on microfilm. This is of course done by the British Library and by others, but it may be that we could expedite the process somewhat.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, is the Minister aware that although book prices have gone up faster than the retail price index in the past five years, this is partly because they were held down below the retail price index in the previous five years; and that of course when fewer new books are being bought that is a contributory factor to the price—particularly of hardbacks and monographs—going up?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, what I think the noble Baroness is saying is that we all, whether as individuals or as industries, have to reckon with the problems of inflation, and this is why it is so wise of the Government to try to establish control over inflation.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, will the Minister agree that this is not only a problem of maintaining an effective library service—important though that is for educational and cultural purposes—but that there are also serious consequences for authors, for the publishing industry, and for those aspects of distribution and retail which are concerned in the business of books, including a very important element of export? I wonder whether the Minister will recall (and I am sure he will) that in the recent debate on the Arts he said: At home and abroad, British people are writing books and plays, and winning Nobel prizes for them…"—[Official Report, 30/11/83; col. 764]. Will he not agree that if this standard of excellence is to be maintained, then it does to a very large extent depend upon the effectiveness of the British market which, in turn, relies to a very large degree on the library services?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, I agree with much of what the noble Baroness has said and, as a result, in my original Answer—if I may remind her and the House—I said: The Government will continue to support the provision by local authorities of a vigorous and efficient public library system within the limit of available resources.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, may I finally ask the Minister to take seriously this decline in public library services, and particularly in the school library service? Will he take note of recent HMI reports? There is a constant emphasis in them of the difficulty experienced by schools from the shortage of books. They have to cope with that. The school library service, which is part of the public library service, very often needs to be maintained in the way that it has not been in the past few years.

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, I shall of course take the noble Baroness's point seriously, though she will appreciate that within the remit of my own ministerial resonsibilities it is the public library service with which I am concerned.