Heating Benefit (Hansard, 13 December 1983)

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, the principal rates of heating addition paid to people on supplementary benefit are £2.05p or £5.05p. The circumstances in which these additions are paid are contained in Schedule 4 to the Supplementary Benefit (Requirements) Regulations 1983. Broadly speaking, heating additions are paid to supplementary benefit claimants who need extra warmth because of age or because they are in poor health; to those who consume more energy because their homes are hard to heat; and to those who have central heating in their homes. This is all set out in the simply-written leaflet, Help with Heating Costs, which is available from the DHSS and also from post offices. In 1978 about million people received these heating additions. In December 1982 the figure was 2½ million.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Can he tell me how this increase in the heating addition compares with the rise in the cost of fuel prices in that same period since 1978?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, supplementary benefit heating addition rates are now at the highest real level that they have ever been. Since 1978, fuel prices have risen by a little under 100 per cent., while heating additions have gone up by 140 per cent. They were recently increased, in November of this year, in line with the 8.6 per cent. increase in the fuel element of the retail price index in the year to last May. The sum of £350 million is being spent this year on heating additions.

§ Baroness Jeger
My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether, in view of the muddle and delay over housing benefits, there is some delay for certain people in receiving their heating allowances because of the processing of the housing benefit claims? Can he tell the House who is supposed to assess the heating needs of people at a time when the Government are telling local authorities to cut their staffs? What is the delay between the application from a person for such an allowance and actually receiving it? How many claims are still waiting in this cold December and have not yet been processed? Would it not be a good idea for the Government to keep the charges down for everybody and spend more money on insulation and other housing improvements?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I do not think that I can agree with the tenor of the series of questions put by the noble Baroness. The housing benefit scheme was introduced in 1982 through 1983, and there are few claimants now who do not have knowledge of what is their entitlement. There is an adjudicator within the Department of Health and Social Security who makes an assessment of the need. From January of next year there will be an application form (which, incidentally, has had a Clear English Award), and which can be used through the post. This will certainly reduce the amount of time it takes for a claimant to receive an authority. If the claimant is not satisfied with the adjudicator's decision, there is an appeal process. I regret I cannot tell the noble Baroness how many people are currently waiting for a confirmation. My understanding is that it is not very many.

§ Lord Banks
My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether it is correct that the current heating additions at the two rates he mentioned are only enough to keep a two-bar electric fire on for two-and-a-half hours and six-and-a-half hours respectively?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I am not able to confirm that as I am not an electrical engineer.

§ Lord Kilmarnock
My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned spending the amount of £350 million on heating additions, which is the same sum given by the noble Earl, Lord Avon, to my noble friend Lady Burton of Coventry recently. I have just received a letter from the noble Lord, Lord Glenarthur, saying that the abolition of standing charges for pensioners would cost only £300 million, which is £50 million less. Are the Government looking into this to see what is the right balance and the best way of achieving help to old people in their homes?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I can confirm the figure given by my noble friend Lord Glenarthur to 101 the noble Lord that the abolition of standing charges would cost £300 million. I can also confirm that, if the standing charge were removed, the £300 million would have to be recovered from other people and undoubtedly that would be the other consumers. It would be the rich who would benefit from such an abolition and not the poor. We believe that a better way to help the poor is through the supplementary benefit scheme and those additions to which I have referred.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that this is a heating addition and that it is not intended to bear the total heating bill? I ask that question in relation to the comment from the other Bench on how long it would run a fire. Will my noble friend also tell me how the Government's record compares with that of previous Goverments? What proportion of people on supplementary benefit obtain heating additions now compared with 1978?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I can confirm to my noble friend that the addition is, in fact, an addition. There are basically two rates: £2.05p and £5.05p per week. That is in addition to any other benefit which might be received. There are, of course, certain criteria that must be met.
As regards the Government's record in this matter, this Administration introduced these additions for those over 70 years of age and under five years of age and the total rate has increased from, I think, 75 pence to the minimum figure of £2.05p, which is considerably more than has been achieved by any other Administration.
The last part of my noble friend's Question referred to numbers. In November 1978, 53 per cent. of all claimants received heating additions. This figure has now risen to 60 per cent. The proportion of pensioners and other persons on supplementary benefit receiving heating addition has risen from 70 per cent. in 1978 to 90 per cent. in 1982.

§ Lord Hale
My Lords, did the Minister say in replying to a previous question that he does not know anything about electricity and that therefore he cannot answer a perfectly reasonable question about the heating of a house? Does this mean that the whole of his staff knows nothing about electricity or other forms of heating? If so, would not another Minister who is fully informed serve the House better, if not the Government?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I am sure that if the noble Lord, Lord Hale, reads Hansard tomorrow he will see that in answer to the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Banks, who asked me whether I would confirm that £2.05p would allow a two-bar electric fire to burn for, I think he said, two hours, I said that I did not know because I was not an electrical engineer. I do know something about electricity and I do know something about the costs. I can tell the noble Lord, Lord Hale, that those officials in my department know all about this. That they did not write that particular formula down for me is regrettable. I will certainly confirm whether the noble Lord, Lord 102 Banks, is correct and advise the noble Lord, Lord Hale.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, before the noble Lord the Minister gets too irate, will he acknowledge that the House was delighted to learn that a letter which is being sent out has received a Clear English Award? In view of the Question asked earlier by the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, would he care to inform the House whether this admirable letter was drafted by a graduate civil servant or a non-graduate civil servant?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, that I am not irate but that if I am to be quoted I should like to be quoted correctly. Perhaps I should tell the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, that I did not refer to a letter but to a claim form for supplementary benefit.

§ Lord Kilmarnock
My Lords, may I confirm that the figure of £300 million given by the noble Lord's colleague was for the abolition of standing charges for pensioners only and would not have the effect of spreading this benefit among people who did not need it?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I regret that I have not seen the letter that the noble Lord has received from my noble friend. I shall certainly look at that and be happy to confirm the matter to him.

§ Lord Bishopston
My Lords, in answer to the Question asked by his noble friend Lady Gardner of Parkes regarding the records of this Administration and the previous one, why did the Minister not tell her that, thanks to the levy on gas and electricity, something like £1,000 million has been added to the bills paid by everyone, including pensioners? Does he agree that his concern to help the poor is hardly consistent with the proceeds of such a tax going to the Government and being designed eventually to help higher income groups by reducing their income tax?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, first of all, I did not mention the matter because it is not true, and neither did I think that it was relevant to the series of questions that my noble friend Lady Gardner of Parkes addressed to me.

§ Baroness Fisher of Rednal
My Lords, would the Minister look into the question of deaths from hypothermia and make sure that a study is made to see that those people who are entitled to the heating addition are taking up the benefit? Is it also possible for the department in some way to be more helpful to those who do not understand the system?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, during the debate on 8th December my noble friend Lord Avon gave figures with regard to deaths from hypothermia. It is regrettable that any death should be caused by hypothermia. I am assured that the department takes note of causes of death, particularly among elderly pensioners, especially those who live alone.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, will the noble Lord say whether the level of heating additions for 103 which the citizens of Northern Ireland are eligible is the same or higher than that in Great Britain, as I believe heating prices are higher in Northern Ireland?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, this is an absorbing Question but I think that the next Question on the Order Paper is equally absorbing. Perhaps when my noble friend has answered the noble Baroness it will be time to move on.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, to my great regret I have to tell the noble Baroness that I am not able to answer that question; but I shall certainly find out and write to her.