Parking Restrictions: Diplomatic Immunity (Hansard, 12 December 1983)

§ Lord Balfour of Inchrye
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)
My Lords, I must apologise to the House for the length of this Answer. We have now completed a detailed review of the wheel clamping of diplomatic vehicles. This review has confirmed that wheel clamping of diplomatic vehicles would be in breach of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, and that it is therefore not legally possible to apply wheelclamps to such vehicles. Instead we propose to tackle the wider problem arising from the numbers of diplomatic vehicles in London. The 4 Government are introducing the following new arrangements to reduce their numbers.
The first new measure arises from the distinction which exists between different types of diplomatic immunity. Representatives of certain international organisations, such as the United Nations and NATO and certain consular staff, are not entitled to full immunity, but only to immunity in connection with acts arising from their official duties. These representatives are at present issued with category "X" registration plates, which are also issued to certain staff entitled to full immunity. In future, "X" category registration plates will be reserved for vehicles whose users are only entitled to immunity arising from their official acts. I am advised that as soon as the necessary re-plating has been carried out, "X" category vehicles, of which there will then be some 400, will be eligible for wheel clamping.
Secondly, we are placing a firm limit on the number of vehicles for which "D" registration plates will be issued. These are plates issued for vehicles used by persons entitled to full diplomatic immunity. In future, issue of "D" plates for official vehicles will be limited to a maximum of one set per notified diplomat per mission.
Thirdly, issue of "D" plates for private vehicles will be limited to a maximum of two sets per diplomatic household. These measures should result in a significant reduction in the number of vehicles exempt from wheel clamping.

§ Lord Balfour of Inchrye
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for his reply. May I ask him this: within this very congested area, could not the police and traffic wardens be instructed to request any car which has immunity and is causing a congestion over Christmas time to move on? In the event of the driver declining to observe such a request, could not the driver and the car be subject to a special report to the ambassador or high commissioner concerned?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I shall of course take up with my right honourable and learned friends the proper nature of the Christmas message to offenders this season. I can tell my noble friend that already the police produce a list showing the registration number and the place and nature of the offence, which is a sufficient guide to heads of missions who want to pursue the matter.

§ Baroness Macleod of Borve
My Lords, can my noble friend say when the orders to which he has referred this afternoon will come into practice?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, that will be as soon as the replating exercise is completed. I understand that will take only a few weeks.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, does the noble Lord the Minister appreciate how gratified many noble Lords will be for his answers since the matter was raised in your Lordships' House on 26th July? On that occasion, the Minister said that where a diplomatic car is causing an obstruction, it can be towed away. Can the noble Lord intimate how many such cars have been towed away since the matter was raised on 26th July?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I stand by what I said. Where cars cause an obstruction they are removed. I regret that at the moment I cannot put my finger on the number in question, but I shall let the noble Lord, Lord Underhill, have that information very shortly.

§ Lord Molson
My Lords, while I recognise the immense step forward which the Government's announcement represents in respect of something that has become an appalling nuisance, may I ask whether the Foreign Office make representations to the heads of missions whose members make unreasonable use of their diplomatic privilege?

§ Lord Elton
Yes, my Lords, they do. In the case of more serious offences under the Road Traffic Acts, representations are made. I believe that I am right in saying that eight diplomats have subsequently left their posts as a result of such representations.
I can now answer the supplementary question put by the noble Lord, Lord Underhill. The number of diplomatic vehicles removed by the Metropolitan Police in 1982–83 amounted to 219. So far in the current year, the number is 104.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, is the Minister aware that at the time we granted to the Metropolitan Police the power to exercise such arbitrary punishment we were informed that the power was required (a) to deal with diplomatic cars, and (b) to deal with cars whose drivers committed a number of offences and who has simply ignored the notices put on their cars? Is the noble Lord aware also that neither of those categories have been dealt with, but the police say that they are quite unaware whether cars have a number of offences against them or not? Could that situation not be corrected now that we have computers? Is not the system where cars are "clamped" completely arbitrary, and is it not true that there is no selection at all? Is it not the case that the clamping gang is simply told to go into a particular area and put clamps on some of the cars that they find there? Is not that form of arbitrary punishment quite wrong? Finally, is it illegal for the ordinary citizen to put a CD plate on the back of his car if he so fancies?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the difficulty of dealing with diplomatic cars is a matter I have already ventilated at great length; and I believe that the noble Lord will accept that we are doing quite a lot in that direction to get over that difficulty. As to the frequent offender, the police try to identify frequent offenders; and when they find them, they apply the necessary remedy. But it is not an easy exercise, although I dare say that the use of computers will make it easier. Regarding the arbitrariness of selection as it appears to the noble Lord, the clamping teams are directed into areas where their attentions are most needed. The object of the exercise is to keep the traffic flowing in London when the streets are very congested.
As to placing a CD plate on the back of the noble Lord's car, I am afraid that will not give him any protection at all, unless he has a diplomatic registration plate as well.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, while congratulating the Government on their new regulations, which we all 6 hope will work, supposing they do not work, in the case especially of "D" plates would the Government be prepared to make a new regulation to the effect that if there are more than three offences the offender should be warned and after, say, six offences he should be declared persona non grata and sent back whence he came?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I understand the frustration of the noble Lord, and I am certain that other countries realise that this sort of conduct does not do anything to foster good international relations. As to taking more draconian steps, I think we should first see what the result of these steps may be.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, can my noble friend tell us what will be the total reduction in the number of diplomatic plates as a result of these welcome measures?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the number of diplomatic plated vehicles which will be replated as a result of this exercise and which belong to administrative and technical staff of missions who are entitled to immunity by reason of their actions only will amount to 1,100.

§ Lord Craigton
My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that his statement will be widely welcomed by all the traders of Westminster, to whom this has been a great trouble for many years? May I ask the noble Lord—he did not mention this—whether he is restricting these cars to the area of their own offices, because there is a belief that these cars are being parked throughout the whole area.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the immunity of a diplomat with full immunity extends to him wherever he is. The immunity to the other people concerned in this exercise extends to them wherever they are, provided they are on the business which gives them the right to that immunity.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, would the noble Lord consider supplying the "clamping gangs", as I think they call themselves in the police, at least with a list of the regularly offending cars which have had a number of tickets in the area and have ignored them, so as to give them priority when they are putting on clamps? At present they have no indication at all as to who is a regular offender and who is not. The process is wholly random and very unfair.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the list of the persistent offenders would not be visible to the noble Lord, but I will make inquiries as to whether one can be produced for the use of the police.

§ Lord De Freyne
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend the Minister this; if the diplomat's car is removed in this normal process, I presume he is bound to pay the normal fee or fine?

§ Lord Elton
No, my Lords, he is not, though the heads of mission of a number of countries do insist that he shall.

§ Lord Balfour of Inchrye
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, there are 5,718 cars used by members of foreign and Commonwealth missions entitled to diplomatic immunity. A provisional total of 74,674 fixed penalty notices were cancelled on grounds of diplomatic immunity in the first nine months of this year.

§ Lord Balfour of Inchrye
My Lords, would the Minister agree that it is about time this one-way traffic of complaints should cease, in that our representatives overseas do their very best to comply with the traffic laws of the countries in which they are serving, whereas in this country some of our diplomatic immunity plate users simply ignore our traffic regulations and there is no redress we have except paper protest?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, in my earlier substantive Answer I told the House what steps we are taking. I entirely share the noble Lord's sense of inappropriateness of this sort of conduct. When a person who is entitled to immunity is alleged to have committed a criminal offence the police report the facts of the case to the Home Office and the Home Office then recommends to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office such further action as is considered appropriate.
As to parking offences, the procedure is to produce a list of the places and times of the offences and the registration marks of the vehicles, from which the heads of mission can deduce who is to blame.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, the Minister will recognise the general consternation at the vast figure that he mentioned—some 74,000 cases. Presumably when the new classifications were determined some estimate was made as to what would be the likely reduction in the number of offences. Can he give such an estimate, and can he say whether the Home Office is in touch with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office about whether our diplomats abroad are responsible for similar offences?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, as to the second supplementary question of the noble Lord, clamping is only resorted to by 11 countries in the world. Of those, five do not grant automatic diplomatic immunity; in only two instances have members of British missions been clamped and on each occasion they paid the fine, I am assured.
With regard to the noble Lord's first supplementary question, I would rather answer it in the light of experience than by anticipation.

§ Lord Craigton
My Lords, would the Minister consider, when looking at new regulations, that there 8 are vehicles which will have concessions? There are other vehicles that should have concessions. I have particularly in mind firms, like Dyno-Rod, who have to stop and clean the drains, and who are moved on while diplomatic cars are left parked. Would he please look at that?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the differences between the vehicles mentioned in the noble Lord's supplementary question and those we are considering in the main Question are so large that I do not think the question falls within the terms of reference.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, if I heard the noble Lord correctly, he said that there were some countries which do not give any diplomatic immunity to foreign representatives. If that is so, why do we give them immunity here?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, because we uphold international law, and the fact that some other people do not is no excuse for our not doing so.

§ Lord Beswick
My Lords, would the noble Lord consider the possibility and the utility of having a copy of the report of these exchanges circulated to the foreign missions here, so that they can see the extent of the concern that there is?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, that is a matter for my right honourable and learned friend. I can assure the noble Lord that there is a very close interest in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in the exchanges in this House this afternoon.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is it not the case that many countries are not signatories of the Vienna Convention, and what steps are Her Majesty's Government taking to press these countries to sign it and bring themselves into line with this country?

§ Lord Elton
MyLords, I must inquire as to the status of the countries in question as signatories or non-signatories of the convention. I will draw the noble Lord's concern and suggestion to the attention of my right honourable and learned friend.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, do the numbers which my noble friend has given indicate that the net reduction of immunity is something of the order of three-quarters?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I think it is rather less than that, but it is nonetheless a very significant reduction.