HL Deb 07 December 1983 vol 445 cc1085-8

2.52 p.m.

Viscount Thurso

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what measures they propose to take to curb the careless discharge of airguns, such as has recently caused several cases of wounding, one of which resulted in the loss of an eye, in Scotland.

The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Gray of Contin)

My Lords, the careless discharge of air weapons is a matter of concern to the Government, to the police and to the public. My right honourable friends the Secretaries of State for Scotland and for the Home Department have, therefore, recently launched a national publicity campaign on the matter. This draws attention to the risks involved, to the safe use of air weapons within the law, and to the merits of belonging to a recognised shooting club. It will run until Christmas, and I am glad to say that the police, who are taking a leading part, are receiving full co operation from members of the Gun Trade Association and from many sporting and other organisations.

Viscount Thurso

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Minister for his helpful Answer. May I ask him whether he is satisfied that the regulations are sufficiently strong and wide enough to control the danger which arises from the careless discharge of air weapons? Does he have in mind any specific measures which might be added to those which are already on the statute book or in regulations?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, I can tell the noble Viscount that the problem is not one of inadequate controls, but rather of difficulty in enforcing the controls. These are already more restrictive than is generally supposed. For example, a firearms certificate is needed for the purchase or possession of the more powerful air weapons, and there are age restrictions on the purchase and use of all air weapons by youngsters. At present the Government have no immediate plans to change the existing regulations.

Lord Mishcon

My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord the Minister recollects the recent debate in this House about violent crime and remembers that on that occasion suggestions were made from this Front Bench about the inadequacy of the licensing procedure for all these weapons? Does the Minister agree that a further inquiry into the matter by the Government is necessary?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his comments. My attention has been drawn to what was said in the debate to which he has referred. We recognise the concern about the adequacy of the controls on shotguns, but the general link between armed crime and the private possession of firearms is not clear-cut. We are not aware of any direct, unambiguous evidence that tightening the controls would have a significant effect on crime levels. As I said in my earlier reply, the Government at present have no proposals to change the existing regulations, but we are, of course, constantly overseeing the situation and we shall take any necessary action, if and when the occasion arises. In the meantime, no proposals are afoot.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware that to date the campaign which has been launched has had a very limited effect, and that by this time next year we shall probably, have forgotten about it, anyway? In view of that fact, will my noble friend consider issuing leaflets informing people about the law, the power of the weapons, and the need for care at the point of sale, and with each sale, of airguns? Furthermore, will my noble friend hold talks to that effect with the manufacturers?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, I can tell my noble friend that such literature has already been made available. The leaflet, Gun Sense is Good Sense, is now available in many shops which sell firearms. The police and various other bodies al co-operating in order to try to ensure that the leaflet is as widely available as possible to those who might be purchasing airguns of any description.

Lord Mishcon

My Lords, will the noble Lord the Minister forgive me and not think me discourteous if I ask him one further question on a matter which I know is of great concern to the House? He stated that there was no unambiguous evidence about a connection between the licensing of firearms as at present regulated and crimes of violence. In view of the ambiguous nature of that reply, does not the Minister consider that it might be worthwhile to carry out an experiment to see whether strengthening the licensing laws results in a reduction in crime levels?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, this matter has been very exhaustively examined by successive Governments over the years. The evidence which has been available to them confirms my earlier remarks. I cannot add to the answer which I gave earlier to the noble Lord.

Viscount Thurso

My Lords, will the noble Lord accept that there are two very simple ways in which the danger from air weapons—I stress air weapons, as opposed to firearms, rifles, and so forth—could be reduced? First, it could be made compulsory that before discharging an air weapon a person should be required to have the written permission of the owner of the ground. In the case of a public park the owner would he the local authority. Secondly, if written permission were given, the person who gave it would be jointly liable for any damage caused by the discharge of the weapon. That would very simply bring under control a great deal of the careless discharge of airguns.

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, of course I attach importance to what the noble Viscount has said, but the evidence does not bear out his comments. Indeed, very many of the cases on land of the kind to which he refers are the very types of case in which the greatest precautions are taken. I am afraid that I cannot agree with the noble Viscount. I do not believe that his suggestion would be particularly advantageous.

Viscount Thurso

My Lords, I hesitate to come back on this question, but the noble Lord the Minister has been in your Lordships' House for only a short time and obviously has not had the opportunity to hear me before on this subject. I would ask him whether he is aware that one of the situations where the greatest danger exists arises in a public park or along the foreshore? The average boy or member of the public thinks that in such a place he can shoot without let or hindrance. He believes that all he is shooting at are tin cans; but the danger from discharge is doubled by the fact that if he is on a foreshore where there are rocks, a shot can ricochet. Will not the noble Lord perhaps consider the matter again and write to me?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, I am afraid that the best assurance which I can give to the noble Viscount is that I shall study very carefully the record of our deliberations. I cannot give him any further assurance.