HL Deb 14 April 1983 vol 441 cc304-5

3.11 p.m.

Lord Gainford

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when the new certificate of prevocational education will be introduced.

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, my honourable friend Mr. William Shelton, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science, announced in another place on 24th March that he had invited the Business and Technician Education Council and the City and Guilds of London Institute to establish joint arrangements for a national system of prevocational education which will include the certificate of prevocational education qualification. These arrangements will fill an important gap in the provisions for young people who wish at 16 to stay on in school or go to a FE college for a year in order to continue their full-time education so as better to prepare themselves for the world of work, or for specific vocational courses. The first CPVE courses will be made available in Sepember 1983, of necessity based largely on existing provision. More complete and coherent arrangements will have been developed, preferably by September 1984 and no later than September 1985.

Lord Gainford

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that full Answer. Has he any information about what subjects are likely to be compulsory and which ones may be optional?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, the whole system for 16-year-olds will be optional. It will be a matter of whether or not the young people wish to do it. The subjects will be largely an issue for the new board. I understand that there will be a mixture of what might perhaps be called traditional school subjects, such as English, mathematics and maybe some computer work, and also experience and studies for work. It is very much for the board to decide what to do.

Baroness Fisher of Rednal

My Lords, is it correct that the new certificate will be awarded for a grouped course which obviously takes into consideration preparation for the world of work? In view of that, does the Minister feel confident that young people will stay on at school or college to take this examination, when they can obtain work experience and get £25 per week under a youth training scheme? Does he not think that the young people will choose the £25 a week and the youth training scheme in preference to the new arrangement which he is bringing forward?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I do not think that that is necessarily so, because this new CPVE is aimed primarily at a different target group. An increasing number of young people are choosing to stay on in full-time education, and it is important that an appropriate qualification should be made available to those who do not have the traditional academic inclinations. The document Seventeen-Plus—A New Qualification, published in May 1982, forecasts an initial take-up of some 80,000 per year. I think that target may not be met initially because of the limited amount of time available between now and September to launch the qualification. At the same time, I am informed that there is a very satisfactory number of young people who wish to take advantage of this particular qualification.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether there will be any upper age limit for this certificate? I have an interest because I shall be 85 on Monday.

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I would not hazard a guess at the noble Lord's age because he looks so young. However, it is, I think, aimed at the 16-year-olds; those who want to go immediately on from school and spend a year getting this qualification.

Baroness Fisher of Rednal

My Lords, in view of the Minister's reply, does it mean that the 80,000 who will be taking this course—or it may be less than that if the take-up is lower—will be taken off the unemployment figures of young people?

The Earl of Swinton

Yes, my Lords. It will simply be considered as a continuation of their education, and as such they will not go on to the unemployment register.

Lord Ross of Marnock

My Lords, can the Minister say whether this has a purely English application?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I would have made some inquiries about that had I known that the noble Lord, Lord Ross, would be here. I suspect it has, but I shall have to write to the noble Lord with a definite answer.