Scottish Legislation (Hansard, 13 April 1983)

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the National Heritage Bill provides for establishing national museums under independent boards of trustees. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State has already announced that he has decided to take similar action for the Royal Scottish Museum, and will introduce legislation in due course. The Bill also provides for the establishment of a Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission for England. Following wide consultations, my right honourable friend announced on 15th June 1982 that the establishment of a similar body for Scotland would not be appropriate, and that remains his view.
The Housing and Building Control Bill is in many respects concerned with aspects of the Housing Act 1980, which differ in approach from the Tenants' Rights, Etc. (Scotland) Act 1980. However, where changes are made which would be applicable to the existing legislation for Scotland we shall certainly consider adopting them in due course. Action on the review of building control in Scotland could largely be met under the existing provisions of the Building (Scotland) Acts, and it is planned to issue a public consultation paper in the early summer.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that full reply. Is he aware that many observers are under the impression that these two Bills do apply to Scotland, and that this is not surprising when a Bill is entitled the "National Heritage Bill"? Much of the national heritage is north of the Border. Will the Government consider possible remedies? For example, every Scottish Bill has the word "Scotland" in brackets in its Title. Could not the word "England", or the words "England and Wales", be similarly included in Titles in appropriate cases?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I assure my noble friend that the lion rampant flies defiantly this afternoon. I am sorry that my noble friend's misapprehensions seem to be widespread north of the Border. Certainly I shall take note of his comments and convey them to my 182 right honourable friend. My noble friend will be aware of the 327 sites which are at present either Crown property or under the guardianship of the Crown in Scotland, and we should not wish it to be thought that the National Heritage Bill applied to these monuments, which at the moment are administered under the tutelage or guardianship of the Crown.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that none of us would wish to inflict upon the people of Scotland a Bill of the complexity and incomprehensibility of the National Heritage Bill? If similar legislation is required in Scotland, will it be of the usual superior standard of Scottish legislation?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I shall certainly convey my noble friend's compliments to my right honourable friend about the quality of Scottish legislation. If we should wish to propose such similar legislation for Scotland, I shall certainly convey the good wishes of my noble friend.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what the phrase "in due course" means? Does it mean during this Session of Parliament?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I understand that it might take some time to complete the necessary preparation and consultation if there were to be introduced any legislation relating to the national heritage or the Museum of Scotland. That would make it unrealistic to contemplate legislation being introduced before 1984 at the earliest. So I hope that that will indicate a timescale to the noble Lord.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, bearing in mind the amount of time which was spent in the last Parliament on debates and Bills on devolution, is it not important to take every opportunity of making clear when there are already devolved arrangements in Scotland for legislation?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, when it comes to a champion such as my noble friend, I shall certainly convey his comments to my right honourable friend in another place.

§ Lord Mowbray and Stourton
My Lords, can my noble friend tell me whether the passing of the National Heritage Bill in this country has weakened the link between Argyle House—the Department of the Environment in Edinburgh—and the Department of the Environment in London, or is there now sole dependence on St. Andrew's House?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I hope that my noble friend does not think that the Bill has passed. I understand that it is still on its way in another place. But certainly I shall inquire about Argyle House and, if I may, I shall write to my noble friend.