Lead Contamination of Vegetables (Hansard, 11 April 1983)

Lord Wallace of Coslany
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, home-grown vegetables form only a small proportion of the diet of the average consumer. Research has shown that even in areas where there are high natural levels of lead in soil and above-average consumption of home-grown produce the total intake of lead from food is well within the limit set by the World Health Organisation. There are, of course, stringent regulations about the lead content of vegetables and other food offered for sale, which accounts for the major part of the average diet.

Lord Wallace of Coslany
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that is a completely unsatisfactory Answer on the part of the Government? Is the noble Lord further aware that there is considerable public concern about this matter, in addition to the fact that there is an implied threat to the health of pregnant women and young children? Is he further aware that it is no use whatever telling people in inner London and other great cities not to grow their vegetables in that area but to go to the greengrocer, because in point of fact—and I live in north-west Kent—considerable quantities of produce are grown immediately adjacent to motorways and, therefore, are open to a considerable amount of lead pollution? I hope that the noble Lord will be able to give a more satisfactory reply.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I am sorry the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Coslany, found my reply unsatisfactory. The fact is, of course, that lead pollution of vegetables is by no means a proven factor, and, even if it were, what is important is the amount that is actually consumed by the people eating the vegetables. The evidence as a whole suggests that petrol lead—the noble Lord referred to motorways—is not the main contributor to total intake in the United Kingdom. The results of the recent European Community blood lead survey show that the United Kingdom blood lead levels, even in areas of heavy traffic, are generally low and are virtually indistinguishable from those in areas with less heavy traffic. In the very few cases where high blood lead levels were found, the cause was invariably either exposure to lead in drinking water or careless stripping of old leaded paint.
The noble Lord also referred to the dangers to health for pregnant women and children. I would refer him to my department's recent press release on the subject of lead and children's intelligence, No. 151, dated 7th April, in which it is reported that investigators from three major United Kingdom research groups will shortly be reporting the absence of any statistically significant lead effects in large-scale studies of children from city centre areas in London, Leeds and Birmingham.

Lord Wallace of Coslany
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I have seen the press statement and that I have read it? There is much to be said in regard to the point that social background should probably he taken into account; but the Government's Answer is completely at variance with scientific reports that have been made recently, not only by CLEAR—the organisation responsible for a press campaign—but also by other reputable scientific organisations. Is the Minister aware, or will he admit, that there is sitting at the moment a Royal Commission, the report of which is due on 18th April, which is a notable date, since it is my birthday? Will the Government undertake to give very careful consideration to the Royal Commission's report, come forward with their conclusions and place the matter before both Houses of Parliament? Judging from what the Minister has indicated, at the moment the Government do not seem to have a clue, and are completely dodging the issue.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
No, my Lords, the Government are far from dodging the issue. My right honourable friend knows full well, as do I, of the forthcoming report of the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution; and, as is always the case, the Government will study it with great care and attention. The Government know that on this particular subject, on which at the moment there is much public concern, as evidenced by the noble Lord's series of questions, the Royal Commission report will add greatly to the debate on the topic. I should be the last to deny the critical level (shall I say?) of expertise contained in reports issuing from the Royal Commission, but it might interest the noble Lord to know that, over and above that report, the Ministry of Agriculture has in hand two research projects on the uptake of lead in vegetables from lead in the air.
6 That shows that the Government take the matter seriously and are studying it at the moment. But, as I say, the report will give added impetus to the study.

§ Viscount Hanworth
My Lords, will the noble Lord agree that the evidence that we have so far from a number of sources is that the amount of lead uptake from the soil varies very greatly with the type of vegetable in question, but there is little doubt that some vegetables, in particular brussels sprouts and lettuce, take a large amount from the air? Will he also agree that if they are not adequately washed,were grown in an area near a road and were subject to a large amount of lead from vehicle emissions, they would most certainly exceed the permissible limit by quite a margin?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords; the noble Viscount is absolutely right. In the washing and culinary preparation of vegetables there is achieved a substantial reduction of the deposited lead, in any event. It has been estimated to be as high as 50 per cent., though that is by no means proven.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the press notice to which he referred—a definitive press notice—was decided upon before or after the recent medical and scientific report which came out in favour of lead-free petrol?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I am afraid that I have no answer to the noble Lord's supplementary question, but what I do know is that the press release is concerned with long-term studies at the University of Birmingham, the Institute of Psychiatry, the Institute of Child Health at Great Ormond Street, and the University of Southampton. I should imagine that the studies have been going on for some considerable time. I should think they were going on while the arrangements for the publication of the study to which the noble Lord referred were also being worked out.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, would the Minister not agree that studies made in the United States of America, Japan, and Australia were sufficient for the Governments of those countries to decide to phase out lead in petrol, since they reckoned that it was dangerous to the health of children in their countries?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, it is not yet clear whether the studies in other parts of the world, especially in the south-western United States, were in fact comparable, in that the conditions were different: there were different amounts of traffic, and different amounts of air movement.