§ 3.3 p.m.
Lord ChelwoodMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a statement following the Foreign Secretary's visit to the Middle East, with special reference to the creation of an independent Lebanon and the next steps towards a peaceful resolution of the Arab/Israeli dispute; and whether recent developments have increased the prospects of a joint European Community/United States initiative to these ends.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, we are participating fully in the current round of diplomacy. On Lebanon, we are working for the withdrawal of all foreign forces, which is an essential step in the restoration of the Lebanese Government's authority. Recent developments on the Arab/Israel problem, particularly President Reagan's initiative, which brings United States and European positions closer together, offer an important opportunity to make progress. We shall continue to urge all the parties concerned to respond as constructively as they can.
Lord ChelwoodMay I press my noble friend to go a little further, my Lords? Do not the prospects for the Arab/Israeli dispute look rather better now than they have at any time since 1948? May this not be a good moment to consider setting up a high-level joint working party between the United States and European Community to try to narrow still further the differences that still exist on both sides of the Atlantic and perhaps prepare the way for a reconvened Geneva Conference?
Secondly, may I ask my noble friend a specific question about the Lebanon? Should not Her Majesty's Government clearly be seen to be doing all they can to help the Lebanon to recreate its integrity and restore its shattered economy? If a larger multinational force is set up, as has been asked for by President Gemayel, and which will surely be needed, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government will be willing to contribute at least a battalion? I very much hope so.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, in answer to the first part of that supplementary question, I share my noble friend's hope that progress in bringing the two parties together in the Middle East will be possible, and I assure him that we shall be working to keep up the momentum. We share the objective of President Reagan's initiative, but the fact is that our policies are identical and we believe that an independent European Community role can make a useful contribution to efforts to bring the parties together to negotiations.
400 To answer the second point my noble friend raised, about British participation in a peace-keeping force, we were not asked to participate in the force that is presently in Beirut, but we fully support the principle of a strengthened peace-keeping force in the Lebanon. We should obviously consider seriously any request for participation, but in this context we cannot get away from the fact that British forces are presently heavily committed elsewhere, particularly in the Falklands.
§ Baroness GaitskellMy Lords, as Israel has welcomed a full inquiry into the question of the massacres in Beirut—a very important thing to have happened—may I ask the Minister whether she agrees that that should be followed by a full inquiry into what is going on in and with the PLO? The situation should be made fair in that sense; that is, not just that there should be this inquiry, which has been welcomed by Israel, but that it should now be followed up by an inquiry into the activities of the PLO.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I think the answer to the noble Baroness is that we recognise that the Israelis have instituted an inquiry into what happened in Beirut. We believe as a Government that the best chance for peace in the Middle East is to continue to work for the implementation of the proposals by President Reagan.
§ Viscount Monckton of BrenchleyMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that whether we be Christians, Jews or Moslems we have nothing but shame to carry for what has happened in the Lebanon, and that anything that can be done should be done to help that situation now?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the British Government have of course condemned what happened in Beirut, which we feel was an appalling affair, and I would like to confirm that we have given £386,000 to aid victims of the conflict. This is being channelled through the International Red Cross, the Lebanese Red Cross, Oxfam and other relief organisations. We have also contributed £2 million through the European Community to a Red Cross appeal, as well as a further £ 1 million as food aid to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency.
§ Lord Wells-PestellMy Lords, may I ask the Leader of the House to say whether the British Government will take the view that, before there can be meaningful discussions between Israel and the PLO, or anything relating to that, the PLO and others taking part will recognise the existence and future of Israel?
§ Baroness YoungWe recognise, my Lords, that part of the proposals that have been put by President Reagan depend on both an acceptance of Israel's right to exist as well as the other proposals of Israeli withdrawal from occupied territories.
§ Lord MayhewMy Lords, would the noble Baroness agree that, owing to the limited size of the existing multi-national force, there is a real danger of further massacres among the Palestinian refugees in Southern Lebanon? Even though, as she says, we may not have 401 received a formal invitation to send a contingent, is she aware that that does not mean that an offer from us would not be extremely welcome? There is much evidence that it would be. Is she aware that if it is hard to find British troops for such a force, a United Kingdom contingent to a Commonwealth battalion should not be beyond the resources of the Government?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Mayhew, asked a question in somewhat similar terms to that of my noble friend Lord Chelwood in one of his supplementaries. I do not think I could at this stage go any further than the answer I gave to the original supplementary.
Lord Paget of NorthamptonIn this instance, my Lords, is there not a case for minding our own business, much as the noble Earl, Lord Mansfield, advised us to do a few minutes ago? It seems to me that for excellent reasons we are not in a position to provide either troops or money. In that case, is it not more sensible to refrain from handing out advice which has not been asked for, remembering that when we did it quite recently, it caused gross offence to one of the parties?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, it is important that both sides to this dispute should realise that we very much support President Reagan's initiative, and we have given support to his proposals. It is another matter whether or not we should intervene to send forces into Beirut, and, for the reasons I gave earlier, we have not been asked to do so and it is not really a practicable proposition.
§ Lord GladwynMy Lords, is it the present intention—
§ Lord DenhamMy Lords, of course I am in the hands of the House, but I would point out to the House that we have been 33 minutes over Question Time today, which I think is almost a record, and one which I think we must not strive to break again. But I would suggest to the House that it might perhaps be the time to pass on to the next business.
§ Lord GladwynMy Lords, is it the present intention that the peace-keeping force should remain in the Lebanon until—
§ Lord Gladwyn—it has it been evacuated?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, perhaps I should take the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, and then we might move on to the next business.
§ Lord GladwynMy Lords, is it the present intention that the existing peace-keeping force in the Lebanon should remain there until the Lebanon has been evacuated by troops of both Syria and Israel?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, we consistently support the withdrawal of all foreign forces from the Lebanon, and in the meantime the peace-keeping troops that are in Beirut will remain where they are. The United Nations' forces in UNIFIL will remain in the Lebanon as well.