§ 3.12 p.m.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I beg to move that the Commons amendments to Lords amendments, Commons amendments in lieu of Lords amendments and the Commons consequential amendment be now considered.
Moved, That the Commons amendment to Lords amendments, Commons amendments in lieu of Lords amendments and the Commons consequential amendment be now considered.—(Lord Elton.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
COMMONS AMENDMENTS IN LIEU OF THE LORDS AMENDMENTS, COMMONS AMENDMENTS TO CERTAIN OF THE LORDS AMENDMENTS AND A COMMONS CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENT
References to the Bill are to Bill (156). The Commons amendments are printed in italics.
§
LORDS AMENDMENTS
1 Clause 14, leave out Clause 14 and insert the following new Clause B—
Release on licence of young offenders.
B.—(1) Subsection (5A) of section 60 of the Criminal Justice Act 1976 shall cease to have effect.
(2) Where a young offender has been released on licence and that licence has expired he remains under the supervision of a probation officer under the terms and for the period specified under section 15 of this Act.
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2 Clause 15, page 13, line 29, at beginning insert "Subject to subsection (8) below,
The Commons disagreed to the above amendments but proposed the following amendments in lieu thereof
3 Clause 14, leave out Clause 14.
4 Clause 15, page 13, line 29, leave out subsection (1) and insert—
(1) Subject to subsection (8) below, if subsection (1A), (1B) or (1C) below applies to a person under 22 years of age who is released from a term of detention under a detention centre order or a term of youth custody, he shall he under the supervision of a probation officer or a social worker of a local authority social services department.
(1A) This subsection applies to a person who was neither granted remission nor released on licence.
(1B) This subsection applies to a person who was granted remission.
(1C) This subsection applies to a person—
5 Page 14, line 1, leave out from beginning to "above" in line 14 and insert—
(3A) Subject to subsection (2) above, where subsection (1A) above applies, the supervision period begins on the offender's release and ends 3 months from his release.
(3B) Subject to subsection (2) above and to subsection (4) below, where subsection (1B) above applies, the supervision period begins on the offender's release and ends—
whichever is the later.(3C) Subject to subsection (2) above and to subsection (4) below, where subsection (1C) above applies, the supervision period begins when the offender's licence expires and ends on the date on which he would have been released if he had never been granted remission or released on licence.
(4) If the date mentioned in subsection (3B)(b) or (3C)".
6 line 34, at end insert—
(9) In this section—
"licence" means a licence under section 60 of the Criminal Justice Act 1967; and
"remission" means remission under rules made by virtue of section 47 of the Prison Act 1952.
7 Schedule 13, page 101, line 3, at end insert "and
(c) in subsection (5A), for the words "any of the preceding paragraphs" there shall be substituted the words "paragraph (a) above",".
8 Schedule 15, page 115, line 46, after "(5A)" insert "(b) and".
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I beg to move that the House doth not insist on their Amendments Nos. 1 and 2, to which the Commons have disagreed, and agree to the Commons Amendments Nos. 3 to 8 inclusive in lieu thereof. At the Third Reading of the Bill in this House, the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, introduced amendments designed to secure the expiry of a young offender's parole licence when he reached his remission date. That amendment satisfied objections to which the noble Lord's amendments had been open at earlier stages, but none the less it was technically defective.
Your Lordships will recall that, when it was considered, I undertook that, should your Lordships see fit to include it in the Bill, I would try to secure the provision of Government amendments which would achieve the intended results without being subject to those technical defects, and that these would then be moved 404 into the Bill during consideration in the Commons of your Lordships' amendments. I am happy to say that it has proved possible to achieve that. Amendments Nos. 3 to 8 between them provide that, when a young offender is released on parole, his parole licence shall run only until his remission date and that parity is achieved between the period of supervision under licence of those released on parole and the period of supervision of those released in the ordinary way. I am grateful to the noble Lord for leading us to the point where it was possible to do this, and I am glad that at this very late stage we have been able to meet the wishes of your Lordships' House.
Moved, That this House doth not insist on their Amendments Nos. 1 and 2, to which the Commons have disagreed, and agree to the Commons Amendments Nos. 3 to 8 in lieu thereof.—(Lord Elton.)
§ Lord MishconMy Lords, with his usual artistry, the noble Lord the Minister has summarised and paraphrased with great elegance of phrase precisely what my amendment, on behalf of my noble friends, was meant on Third Reading to put into the Bill. I am most grateful to the noble Lord for what he said, and I am equally grateful for the way in which the undertaking that he gave has been faithfully fulfilled.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§
LORDS AMENDMENT
Before Clause 23 insert the following new clause E: Restriction of liberty of children in care.
E.—(1) The following section shall be inserted after section 21 of the Child Care Act 1980—
Use of accommodation for restricting liberty.
21A.—(1) Subject to regulations under subsection (2)(a) below, a child in the care of a local authority may not be placed, and, if placed, may not be kept in accommodation provided for the purpose of restricting liberty unless it appears—
(2) The Secretary of State may by regulations—
(3) It shall be the duty of a juvenile court before which a child is brought by virtue of this section to determine
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whether the criteria for keeping a child in accommodation provided for the purpose of restricting liberty are satisfied in his case; and if a court determines that the criteria are satisfied, it shall make an order authorising the child to he kept in such accommodation and specifying the maximum period for which he may be so kept.
(4) On any adjournment of a hearing under subsection (3) above a justice of the peace or a juvenile court may make an interim order permitting the keeping of the child to whom the hearing relates during the period of the adjournment in accommodation provided for the purpose of restricting liberty.
(5) An appeal shall fie to the Crown court from a decision of a juvenile court under this section.
(6) A juvenile court shall not exercise the powers conferred by this section in respect of a child who is not legally represented in that court unless either—
(2) In the Legal Aid Act 1974—
The Commons agreed to the above amendment wun the following amendment:
In subsection (4) of the inserted section 21A, leave out "a justice of the peace or".
§ 3.15 p.m.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 10 to the Lords Amendment No. 9. Amendment No. 10 is a tidying-up amendment consequential on the decision in this House on the Third Reading of the Bill to remove from the new clause on the use of accommodation for restricting the liberty of children in care provision for an ex parte application to a justice of the peace to confirm placements in secure accommodation. Amendment No. 10, moved by the Government in another place, simply deletes from the new clause the only remaining reference to such provision. I beg to move.
Moved, That the House doth agree with the Commons in the said amendment.—(Lord Elton.)
§ Lord Elwyn-JonesMy Lords, this amendment touches upon a very important matter which we discussed at some length at the earlier stages of the Bill; namely, the concern about the hundreds of children—amounting perhaps to 2,000 or more a year—who are locked up in prison-like conditions without any proper judicial control, review or supervision. It really is an affront to our criminal justice system. It may also be an infringement of the European Convention on Human Rights that there is no such judicial review available. The new Clause 21A sought to remedy that situation, and we are glad that after the matter was considered by the House and your Lordships accepted the Opposition approach to it, the Government now accept it.
406 However, the question that we are now discussing is whether those provisions should take effect on Royal Assent, or whether the making of regulations to give effect to what the House had in mind should first take place before the provisions are implemented. In another place, speaking for the Government, the Minister said that the regulations should be made as soon as possible, and he said that it was hoped that they would be made in the latter part of next spring. Well, spring has a way of being late, and a late spring has a way of being even later.
The real anxiety of those who are concerned in this field is that what has been done by the House should be given effect to at as early a stage as practicable. Indeed, some people have asked, why should not the provision remain and so go on to the statute book, and not be restricted in relation to when it should come into effect, in the way that is proposed in the amendment? Perhaps at the very least the noble Lord the Minister will give us an assurance of the intention of the Government to produce the regulations as soon as possible; if possible before the spring, the early spring, if I may put it that way.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, the noble and learned Lord has rightly pointed out that "spring" is an elastic term, but I can certainly assure him that we shall not countenance any unnecessary delay in getting on with the work. If the noble and learned Lord will bear with me until we reach Amendments Nos. 13 and 14, he will find that I shall then have much to say about implementation. If I tried to extract that now, I should get into a muddle and either repeat myself or leave bits out. So, if the noble and learned Lord will be patient, I hope that your Lordships will accept the amendment as it stands.
§ Lord Elwyn-JonesMy Lords, the fault is entirely mine. I have spoken to an earlier amendment—not, I am sorry to say, for the first time.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§
LORDS AMENDMENT
11 After Clause 27, insert the following new clause G:
"Activation of suspended sentence
G. In section 23(1) of the Powers of Criminal Courts Act 1973, the words "which have arisen since the suspended sentence was passed" shall be omitted".
The Commons agreed to the above amendment with the following consequential amendment to the Bill:
12 Schedule 15, page 116, line 23, leave out 'Section 23' and insert 'In section 23, in subsection (1), the words "which have arisen since the suspended sentence was passed", and subsections'.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their consequential amendment to the Bill, Amendment No. 12. Noble Lords will recall that the new clause, which now appears as Amendment 11, was moved by the noble Lord, Lord Wigoder, on the Third Reading of the Bill in this House and was accepted by the Government and the House. It works by deleting some of the wording of Section 23(1) of the Powers of Criminal Courts Act 1973. Amendment 12, which was moved by the Government in another place, simply makes the necessary consequential amendment to the repeals schedule, Schedule 15. I beg to move.
407 Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said amendment.—(Lord Elton.)
§ Lord WigoderMy Lords, thank you.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§
LORDS AMENDMENT
13 Clause 60, page 53, line 38, leave out "This Act, except this section." and insert
(1) The following provisions of this Act shall come into force on the day this Act is passed, namely—
section [Restriction of liberty of children in care];
section 28;
section 29;
section [Her Majesty's Chief Inspectors of Prisons];
section 55;
section [Construction of references to "the standard scale"];
section 56;
section 57, so far as it relates to paragraph 17 of Schedule 13;
section 58, so far as it relates to the Imprisonment (Temporary Provisions) Act 1980;
section 59, so far as it relates to paragraph 14 of Schedule 16;
this section; and
section 61.
(2) Subject to subsection (1) above, this Act
The Commons agreed to the above amendment with the following amendment:
14 Leave out "section [Restriction of liberty of children in care);".
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons Amendment No. 14 to your Lordships' Amendment No. 13. Amendment 13, which was agreed by this House on Third Reading, provides for certain provisions of the Bill, including those which are simply enabling powers, to come into force on Royal Assent. Amendment 14, which was moved by the Government in another place, deletes the reference in the amendment to the new clause dealing with the use of accommodation for restricting the liberty of children in care. The reason for the amendment is that, until the Government's new clause on the use of secure accommodation was agreed in this House at Third Reading, the clause in the Bill dealing with the question of the use of secure accommodation was simply an enabling power, which it was appropriate to bring into force at the time of Royal Assent.
The new clause agreed at Third Reading still makes provision enabling the Secretary of State to make regulations to cover the new arrangements governing the use of secure accommodation. It also sets out, however, in main legislation, the criteria which must be satisfied before a child may be placed or kept in secure accommodation. If the clause were to be implemented when the Act is passed, local authorities would be required to apply these criteria. But criteria for placement in secure accommodation already exist in the Community Homes Regulations 1972. Regulation 11(2) states that the person in charge of a community home may place a child in secure accommodation,
if he considers it to he necessary in the interests of a child residing in the home or for the protection of other persons".It is clear we cannot have two requirements regarding the use of secure accommodation in force simultaneously. The effect of Amendment No. 14 is that the new clause on the use of secure accommodation will, 408 in common with the majority of provisions in the Bill, be brought into force by commencement order.I regret that this amendment was not carried through into Amendment No. 13 when it came before your Lordships' House on Third Reading. However, I am happy to say that my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Department of Health and Social Security was able to give a categorical assurance (which the noble and learned Lord, Lord Elwyn-Jones, would be asking for immediately after I sat down had he not already done so) that the Government intend to make regulations providing for arrangements for judicial reviews of placements in secure accommodation as soon as possible. The precise timing will depend on a speedy conclusion to the consultation process about the regulations and on whether the arrangements governing the use of secure accommodation can satisfactorily be separated from a wider review and reform of the regulations governing the conduct of community homes.
The process of consultation has already begun. My honourable friend indicated that the Government's hope is that they will be in a position to bring the regulations forward "by the latter end of next spring". The noble and learned Lord will forgive me if I do not give a more precise date than that. It depends a bit upon the weather, but before your Lordships rise for the Recess I would hope that we had achieved this. I beg to move.
Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said amendment.—(Lord Elton.)
§ Baroness DavidMy Lords, my noble friend has spoken already of the need for an early spring, so I will not repeat that. But I would ask the Minister whether there can be wide publicity given to this new clause and particularly to the criteria. It seems a pity that those criteria cannot be got out to local authorities, but I feel sure that in some publication they can be drawn to the attention of local authorities so that they know what Parliament expects.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I can certainly undertake that those parts of the media concerned with this, and therefore read by people concerned with this, will be adequately and timely informed of what is proposed.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§
LORDS AMENDMENT
15 Schedule 3, page 62, line 29, at end insert—
| "HOUSING ACT 1980 (c. 51) Offence under paragraph 7 of Schedule 24 (using or permitting the use of premises without means of escape in case of fire in contravention of an undertaking). | Section 147 and Schedule 24 | £50 and £5 per day following conviction. | £1,000." |
The Commons agreed to the above amendment with the following amendment:
16 Leave out "and £5 per day following conviction".
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons Amendment No. 16 to the Lords Amendment No. 15. This is a drafting amendment which simply brings the wording of Amendment 15 (which was moved by my noble friend Lady Gardner on the Third Reading of the Bill in this 409 House) into line with the other provisions of Schedule 3 to the Bill. I beg to move.
Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said amendment.—(Lord Elton.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.