Overseas Aid (Hansard, 30 November 1982)

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, the Government plan no reduction in the level of overseas aid for the current financial year. Indeed, since the publication last March of the White Paper which contained the Government's expenditure plans, the net aid provision for the current financial year has been increased from £950 million to £958.6 million.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord two questions? First, is it not the case that Government Ministers both here and in another place have consistently confirmed that this year's aid figures were planned at 11 per cent. below those of last year? Secondly, since we know that in the final year of the last Labour Government 40,000 British jobs were directly created by British overseas aid, can the Minister say how many British jobs are at present directly related to, and created by, our overseas aid programme?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I have never given a figure of 11 per cent. reduction in aid for this year compared with last year. In cash terms there is a reduction of 1 per cent. compared with the previous year. Nor have I ever tried, on behalf of Her Majesty's Government, to give an assessment of the number of jobs created by the giving of aid. I should have thought that that was almost impossible.

Lord Oram
My Lords, is not the most meaningful way of measuring an aid programme that which expresses it in terms of GNP, since that takes account of both inflation and ability to pay? On that basis has there not been a decline in each year that the present Government have been in office?

§ Lord Belstead
No, my Lords; that is not the case. The proportion of our aid at the moment is 0.44 per cent. of GNP. Incidentally, that is well above the OECD average. The percentage was 0.35 in 1980.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, has the Minister read the speech made yesterday by M. Mitterrand, the Prime Minister of France, in which he urged common action on aid to relieve the poverty in the third world, which is leading to the death of 17 million children every year? Will the Government get in touch with M. Mitterrand to seek common action for that purpose?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, as a result of the Anglo-French summit, the British and French Governments are to be in considerably closer touch, and I am sure that that is something which the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, will welcome. I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, will also welcome the fact that because the British Government accept the view put forward by him, in the next financial year our aid figure in cash terms will be 8 per cent. greater than that of this year.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, in view of the general impoverishment from which we are suffering as a result of Her Majesty's Government's policy, will Her Majesty's Government make it clear that this financial aid is a gesture of benevolence, and 1137 cannot be expected as of right? Will they exercise a proper discrimination and at least make it plain that aid will not be available to countries which are in flagrant breach of the agreements which they have made with this country—in particular, countries which blatantly discriminate against their white citizens?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the aid programme of this country is substantial. It is in the region of £1,000 million and that reflects the very strong basis of the economy of this country at the present time. It is dispensed on a careful and selective basis but with particular emphasis placed on the dispensation of funds to the poorest countries.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, would my noble friend agree that Britain's contribution to the United Nations Voluntary Fund, to which I think we are the second largest contributor, has resulted in many small projects in third world countries being brought to fruition? We should be proud of our contribution to that.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Trumpington for that question.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, the Director-General of UNESCO spoke a few days ago about the growing inequalities between nations and, in view of the fact that the European Economic Community regularly produces surpluses which we really do not know what to do with and which are very often disposed of in questionable ways, would it not be appropriate for Her Majesty's Government to talk not only to the French Government but to the other Governments of the EEC with a view to ensuring that the food we produce is at least sent to those countries where the need is greatest and so that some new policy may be produced which is fair to the poorer sections of the world? Would that not be a prudent step to take?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I think that it is precisely because of the advice which the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, is giving in his supplementary question that, when the Foreign Affairs Council of the European Community was held only a week ago, it was finally confirmed that the Community should give an additional 10 million units of account to Honduras, Costa Rica and Dominica. Precisely what the noble Lord is advising is right—first of all, discussions, then action. That is what happened on that occasion.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree—I imagine that he would—that the figures that he gave to my noble friend Lord Oram were based on different criteria and that there has been a change in the criteria between 1980 to 1982? Would he not also agree that it is a well-known fact that the present British Government have quite openly cut overseas aid and have not tried to disguise it? Is he aware that there is no Government department other than housing that has cut its expenditure to the same extent as that of overseas aid?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I think it is for the House to judge what the figures show. I will give the figures. 1138 In the first financial year in which this Government took office, 1979–80, £788 million in cash was dispensed in the net aid programme; in the next year, the figure was £889 million; in 1981–2, which was the last financial year, it was £972 million. This year it is £959 million—the one year in which there is a dip, a 1 per cent. dip, in cash terms; and next year the 8 per cent. increase will show a net aid programme of £1,035 million.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
But, my Lords, that is in cash terms, is it not? Am I not right in thinking that the noble Lord said specifically that these figures are in cash terms and not in real terms?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, that is correct.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, that is the very question that I was going to ask the noble Lord. Irrespective of whether it is too much or too little and irrespective of questions of policy, is not this House entitled to know the facts? And by talking only in cash terms is not the Minister not giving us the full facts? Either he must convert the cash terms because of inflation or else he must tell us the real terms; and, on this basis, the answers that he has been giving are, I am afraid, not really full or accurate.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I should be foolish if I crossed swords with the noble Lord after many years' experience the noble Lord has had as a senior Minister in the Treasury; but as someone who is perhaps like Mrs. Malaprop—in that I do not understand figures very well—would I not be right in thinking that it is a little difficult to give real-term figures for a financial year which has not yet ended?