Concorde (Hansard, 25 November 1982)

§ The Earl of Kinnoull
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Trefgarne)
My Lords, at a meeting on 6th May 1982 the Minister of State, Department of Industry, and the French Minister of Transport discussed a report by British and French officials on the results of joint studies on the future of Concorde. These studies showed that, on the basis of estimates supplied by British Airways, their surpluses from operating Concorde up to the end of 1988 would be more than enough to cover the cost of in-service support of Concorde which is at present borne by the Government. British Airways were therefore asked whether they would be prepared to take on Her Majesty's Government's financial and other responsibilities for in-service support, on the basis that Government funding will cease on 31st March 1983. The airline are considering this in consultation with other interested parties, and expect to let the Government have a definitive reply in early December. The French Government are being kept fully in touch with developments. Tables summarising the British input to the joint studies are available in the Library.

§ The Earl of Kinnoull
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that very helpful reply. Would my noble friend confirm that Her Majesty's Government will remain flexible on the timing of any handover concerning British Airways and not declare the strict deadline of April 1983, in view of the complexities of renegotiating the support contracts with the manufacturers?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, we have indicated the date by which we would wish to see the handover take place. However, as my noble friend has requested, we shall certainly not be inflexible in the discussions.

§ Lord Beswick
My Lords, the negotiations are taking place and one hopes that a reasonable result will follow. However, would the noble Lord take the opportunity of confirming the basic belief of Her 972 Majesty's Government in the future of supersonic air transport? Will he not take the opportunity of saying that they do believe that this will be the method of travel in the future, that it will be a big business, and that it is essential, one way or the other, for Britain to remain in it?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, our support for this project is indicated by the fact that what is now happening points to the success of Concorde's present operations and not otherwise.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, can my noble friend tell me whether there was anything in the original agreement which would leave Her Majesty's Government responsible for any penalties if and when they do withdraw from this? Are there any commitments which will not have been fulfilled in the original agreement, or will they be completely free to withdraw without any type of penalty being imposed?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, as I have indicated, this will be a negotiated transfer and therefore there is no question of penalties arising in that context.

§ The Earl of Kinnoull
My Lords, can my noble friend say what view the French Government will take if British Airways take over the responsibility from Her Majesty's Government and whether Air France will have a parallel responsibility? Secondly, can my noble friend say what is the likely value and use of the stockpile of spares which Her Majesty's Government own and hold at the moment, if no agreement is reached and the Concorde service expires?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, that is not a matter for the French Government specifically, because of course it is an arrangement between British Airways and the British Government. However, we are keeping them closely informed of what we are doing. Whether or not the French Government wish to enter into a similar agreement with Air France is not a matter for me to pass comment upon, but no doubt they will be watching closely what we are doing. As for the future of the spares which are presently, as my noble friend says, the property of the Government, they are one of the matters that will be discussed with British Airways in the context of these negotiations generally.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, apart from the financial problems which I do realise, will the Government do their utmost to keep Concorde flying?—because would the noble Lord not agree that it is a very great tribute to British engineering and that it would be most unfortunate if supersonic flights over the Atlantic had to be abandoned?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness, but I must say that it is the passengers who will keep Concorde flying and it is the passengers who are indeed supporting the transatlantic services to the extent that makes this transfer viable for British Airways.

§ Lord Hankey
My Lords, will the Government bear in mind the tremendous importance of keeping together the technologists who understand this type of 973 thing? If the service did not continue, would it perhaps be possible for the RAF to take over these marvellous aeroplanes, because they are certainly the best aeroplanes flying?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, so far as I know there is no Ministry of Defence requirement for aircraft of this kind. However, let me say at once that there is no prospect of British Airways discontinuing these operations. The fact of the matter is that they are at present making an annual operational surplus of something like £7 million, which I am certain ensures the continued operation of these aircraft for many years to come.