HL Deb 10 November 1982 vol 436 cc231-3

2.43 p.m.

Baroness Sharples

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied that the police services are now provided with the necessary clothing and equipment to deal with any civil disorders should they arise.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)

My Lords, all police forces in England and Wales now have supplies of clothing and equipment to protect their officers when dealing with civil disorder. It is for each chief officer to judge how much of such equipment his force requires, but I have no reason to suppose that any force is not now adequately provided for.

Baroness Sharples

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. I last asked this Question in June 1981. Can my noble friend please tell me whether the helmet which I have tried on now, which is considerably more comfortable, will be improved by having better transmitters and receivers, because I understand that they are not very good at present?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I think we are referring to different sorts of helmets. I am thinking of a protective helmet for the use of policemen dealing with civil disorders. Of those, there are about 20,000 with the forces. They have recently been the subject of careful scrutiny and I understand that they are extremely efficient.

Lord Inglewood

My Lords, may I ask the Minister to give us more information about the scale? Can he say that the majority of men now recruited into what we call task forces of different kinds, no matter what the name might be, have been issued with the necessary equipment and have had the necessary training? Will he make a special point of this and let us know that it is not just a question of issuing new equipment but also of giving the necessary training?

Lord Elton

My Lords, as to the first part of my noble friend's question, in addition to the 20,000 helmets there are 15,000 pairs of fire-resistant overalls and 8,000 shields. I can assure my noble friend that our police forces are trained effectively in the use of all equipment issued to them.

Baroness Sharples

My Lords, can my noble friend say whether the overalls which are being issued will have identification on them? I understand that the public are worried to some extent because they cannot identify an officer should there be any problems.

Lord Elton

My Lords, yes, it is our intention that they should always bear identification numbers. I am aware of a recent occasion when a small number of officers were said not to be wearing identifying numbers on their flame resistant overalls. That is a subject of investigation and I should not, therefore, like to go further.

The Lord Bishop of Peterborough

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the best defence or armour that the police force has is public esteem? Could not much more be done to commend the long-suffering police to the public? Will the Minister investigate and perhaps propagate the new scheme for the police and the public which is to begin in Northamptonshire on 1st January next? If he does not know about it, would he be glad if I told him?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I always look forward to a conversation with the right reverend Prelate and would expect to profit from it, whatever the subject. However, we are on common ground. I entirely endorse his approach to this subject. The commendation of the police, implicit in his words, could not come from a better source. We in the Home Office are also extensively engaged in promoting means of consultation between communities and their local police forces because, as I said on another occasion, police forces do nor impose things upon the community, nor are they themselves imposed upon them. They are part of the community and act with the consent and support of the community. That is the origin of good policing.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, is the Minister prepared to consider giving more assistance particularly to young police constables who desire very much to get involved with youth clubs and youth organisations in schools and similar places? I believe that this, too, would be a contribution towards better understanding of the role of the police.

Lord Elton

My Lords, at the risk of departing even further from the Question, I will say that a good deal of this work is already going on and we sympathise with the noble Lord's position.

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that there would be practically no oppression possible in the world if it was not for the fact that it is carried out by people who are faceless? Does he agree that it is the lack of identification which makes so many horrible actions possible? It should be very strongly moved on the part of every Government that all people who have authority in the world should have labels on them by which they can be identified, so that these terrible things can never happen.

Lord Elton

My Lords, as I said earlier, it is our intention that every police officer should be clearly identifiable. As to the hypothesis on which the noble Viscount rests his case, the features of Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin were indelibly etched in every mind in this Chamber.

Viscount St. Davids

And ended in their destruction, my Lords.