§ 2.49 p.m.
Viscount St. DavidsMy Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Hanworth who unfortunately is ill and has asked me to officiate for him, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in his name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will again make representations to the British Waterways Board about a further case of refusing to license a horse-drawn pleasure-boat on the Ashby Canal; and what relevance the reasons given for refusal have to the canal in question.
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, the Government are aware of previous representations on this case, and I understand that in dealing with it the board have reaffirmed their policy of resisting the extension of horse-drawn services, unless there are particular and compelling circumstances. I also understand that this policy was arrived at taking into account the cost of maintaining tow paths and the possible effect upon the safety and convenience of other boaters and of anglers and walkers who are the major leisure and recreational users of towing paths.
Viscount St. DavidsMy Lords, while agreeing that it would be expensive and, indeed, impossible and ridiculous to keep all towpaths open for the original method of moving boats, which was horse-drawn towing, will my noble friend explain to the board that there are areas where, partly for tourist reasons and partly for the sheer pleasure which arises from being moved along a waterway noiselessly in this manner, we should keep the towpaths open. What should be asked for are certain limited and identified areas—not the whole extent.
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, while it must be of course for the board to take day-to-day responsibility for licensing controls, my honourable friend would be willing to discuss the board's general policy with them. I cannot of course say what the outcome of such discussions will be.
Lord Paget of NorthamptonMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that I have half a century's experience of living on a canal and that half a century ago nearly all the traffic was horse-drawn? Now the horses have disappeared. The horses were quiet, agile and picturesque. To say that a horse is not clever enough to find its way along even a rather broken-down towpath is nonsense.
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I bow to the noble Lord's experience, but I do not think I was saying that. I was saying that it is the anglers and other people who are put at risk by the horse.
§ Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of HastoeMy Lords, can the noble Earl, Lord Avon, account for the extraordinary hostility shown by successive Governments to canals? Is the noble Earl aware that this used to be attributed to the rivalry between railways and canals? Since that can no longer apply, can he account for the Scrooge-like disapproval shown by all Governments, and especially by his own, to the existence of such a useful and delightful public service?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, before I came to give my Answer, I looked up to see when this Question was last answered. It was last answered by the noble Baroness, Lady Stedman, who gave an Answer very much the same as my own from this particular Dispatch Box. May I say that in its recent review, the Government have in fact given a lot of money to the support of the canals and I believe that the policy is changing. In fact, I believe that the noble Viscount, Lord St. Davids, is actually quite pleased with the present Government's activities.
§ Lord KinnairdMy Lords, would the Minister not agree that perhaps the Government have little horse sense?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, when it comes to equalling the expertise of the noble Lord, Lord Wigg, I think that my own colleagues are very good.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, if the Govern- 470 ment are giving priority to anglers, which many of us can understand, is this not a case of putting the cast before the horse?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I accept that Scottish aphorism.
Viscount St. DavidsMy Lords, will the noble Earl not confirm one thing which has delighted those who love the inland waterways: that the present Government are placing on the cruising list a large number of waterways which were previously, under previous Administrations, put up for mere disposal?
§ The Earl of AvonThe noble Viscount is indeed quite correct, my Lords.