HMS "Sheffield" and Sea Wolf Missile (Hansard, 14 May 1982)

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Viscount Trenchard)
My Lords, I am aware of the recent radio and press reports. The facts of the matter are that, while consideration was given over 10 years ago and again some five years ago to fitting Sea Wolf to Type 42 destroyers, it was never incorporated in the design because it was found to be impracticable to fit both the Sea Wolf and the Sea Dart systems on the same Type 42 ship. The Sea Wolf system is deployed with the task force on the Type 22 frigates.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that helpful reply. Does the same apply to the new Sea Wolf system with the lightweight tracker radar?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, it has so far been judged that it will remain impracticable to fit Sea Wolf with the new lightweight tracker radar to the Type 42s, in addition to Sea Dart. It is also true that, even if the lightweight tracker radar had been ordered the 416 day the Royal Navy decided that it could meet the specification, it would still not have been in service for several years yet.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, are we not embarking on rather dangerous ground in these questions affecting military security and military secrets? Is this an appropriate course that is being followed by the noble Lord who has asked the Question?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, there is nothing in the questions or in my answers which in any way impairs the secrecy which the Government regard as paramount in relation to the task force.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
I come back to the question of security. Surely the BBC broadcast of the "Today" programme at 7 a.m. and 8 a.m. on 11th May contained a whole lot of facts, many of which were erroneous, and the whole statement was laced with innuendoes which would sow distrust of the Government's policy and mistrust of its missile policy. Is it not desirable that, for the comfort of those who are concerned in the task force and their relations at home, we should make it clear at the earliest possible moment how inaccurate this statement was?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, what I regret in relation to my noble friend's supplementary question is that no effort was made by the BBC to check with us the several-times-over inaccurate inferences of these BBC peak-time comments. Neither, yet, has the BBC used the MoD statement which, after careful consideration in relation to security, was released to the press and to the BBC on 12th May. I am putting copies of that statement in the Library of the House.

§ Earl Cathcart
My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister confirm that his meeting with the all-party Defence Select Committee was, in fact, a previously arranged long investigation into the general policy of procurement, and was not specifically designed, as implied by the BBC in that broadcast, to discuss the Sea Wolf missile?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, I can confirm that, and the House of Commons Defence Select Committee have confirmed that situation in public, also.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, in view of the need for accurate reporting at this time, could the noble Viscount say what consultations take place between his department and the BBC and ITV on these matters to which he has referred, so that the reports put over by the BBC and ITV can be as accurate as possible?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, there was no method by which the Ministry of Defence could have known that the BBC news bulletin on the morning of the 11th was going to have a statement with, as I have tried to explain, inaccuracies some four times over, and with implications which are good neither for the morale of the forces in the task force, nor, let it be said, for the widows of the gallant men who died on HMS "Sheffield". Had we been consulted, had we 417 been told of any intention to run this item, we would have supplied the facts that I have now supplied to the House.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, with great respect, the noble Viscount has not answered my question in full. I was asking what regular consultations take place. If they do not take place, would it not be useful for such consultations to take place between representatives of the noble Viscount's department and of the media?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, in normal times, pretty regular contacts take place between the information department of the Ministry and all the relevant people in the media, including the BBC. At the moment, with the emergency on, special arrangements exist and one would have thought that those special arrangements, or the telephone, would have been used before putting out that statement with the inferences concerned.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, what are the special arrangements?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, if the noble Lord would walk round to the Ministry of Defence, he would see that that great room downstairs is permanently laid out as a, more or less, permanent press conference. Representatives of the media, the independent channels and the BBC, are almost constantly there and Mr. McDonald, whom the noble Lord mentioned just now, is from time to time and as soon as he can, bearing in mind the priorities which exist for using signal channels for operational reasons, giving to the media full information that is compatible with security. The contact is in both directions hourly at the moment. The point, however, is that on this particular news bulletin at a peak time a programme was put out which had certain obvious inferences that HMS "Sheffield" could have been saved.

§ Lord Hooson
My Lords, is the noble Viscount implying that the BBC were deliberately misleading or that they were misleading through ignorance? If the latter is the case, is it not incumbent upon the Ministry of Defence adequately to brief the information services so that they do not make misleading statements?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, statements had been made regarding the loss of the "Sheffield". There was no way in which the Ministry could have foreseen that inferences—inaccurate four times over—were likely to be made. As to the motives for making them, no, I do not accuse anyone of that motive, but I do take note that that sort of inference appears, in this day and age, in a free country to have more news value than the sometimes boring facts.

§ Lord Davies of Leek
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that we appreciate his sincerity in answering some of these questions? On both sides of the House, envertheless, we realise that in this hostility which has not been declared a war brave men and women are losing their lives. We find it queer that, day in and day out, scores of English people in Buenos Aires 418 are talking to the world and that news is going both ways. When all this is over and we have paid tribute to the men who have died for this freedom, I hope that a deep inquiry will be made into the causes of this ramshackle affair which we are now involved in—ending with a preposition!

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, I think that many of us have a great deal of sympathy with the noble Lord's sentiments. We have heard it again declared that we are not at war, that we are in hostilities, that we have not got the arrangements which normally accompany war. We are also carrying out hostilities 8,000 miles away where communication is extremely difficult to arrange, whereas the international facilities available to the news media in Buenos Aires are infinitely greater. I should not like to give the noble Lord the impression that we are entirely happy about the way in which this is working, but we do have to put operations first. In this situation, we expect there to be a degree of cross-checking and responsible thought by the media before they come out with stories or allegations.

Lord Morris
My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that ignorance of the facts is no defence whatever to being misleading, whether wittingly or unwittingly?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, I am not prepared to say anything further than I have already said. I have given the House the facts. I have pointed out that facts are sometimes more boring than inferences, suggestions or sensitive questions.

§ Lord Beswick
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that I think his criticisms of the BBC are absolutely justified in this particular case? That is on the one hand. On the other hand, is the noble Viscount further aware that the implications of the first question seem to be absolutely offensive and help no one? Does not there seem in this case to be room for getting together with the media in order to see whether or not some new guidelines can be devised?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, I think that there will be considerable discussions. It is clear that the chairman of the BBC is himself deeply interested in this situation and, I suggest, deeply worried about the criticisms which have been made. I am sure that discussions will take place. I very much hope that, somehow, in a free country we can, without in any way curbing the right of free comment, make sure that unfortunate incidents like this do not occur.