HL Deb 25 March 1982 vol 428 cc1058-9

3.4 p.m.

The Earl of Kinnoull

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in the light of the New Forest inquiry, the Department of Energy and the Department of the Environment will jointly publish an energy policy statement covering all inland fossil extraction and indicating categories of sensitive conservation areas which would not be eligible for production licences over the next 30 years except on the ground of overriding national interest.

The Minister of State, Scottish Office (The Earl of Mansfield)

My Lords, the New Forest Inquiry has been adjourned since 3rd February 1982 and is due to resume on 4th May 1982. Environmental factors are taken fully into account in consideration of planning applications for new energy developments. My right honourable friends the Secretaries of State for Energy and for the Environment have no plans to publish a statement on the lines suggested by my noble friend.

The Earl of Kinnoull

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, would he agree that generally it is wholly undesirable to allow a production licence in a sensitive conservation area unless some national interest is involved? Would my noble friend agree that there should now be a national plan for inland energy resources? And may I ask him at what point there is consultation over these matters between the Department of Energy and the Department of the Environment?

The Earl of Mansfield

My Lords, if I may deal first with the last part of my noble friend's supplementary, I do not think that it would be either desirable or practicable in the present circumstances to have a plan such as my noble friend envisages. So far as the first part of his supplementary question is concerned, one has to distinguish between the licensing stage and the planning considerations that follow it. So far as the latter are concerned, once the Department of Energy, which is concerned with the issuing of licences, has completed its role it, as it were, stands aside. It is then for the local authority and, in proper cases, for the Department of the Environment, where the planning application is called in, to play their part in the planning procedures.

Lord Wynne-Jones

My Lords, is the noble Earl telling us, in effect, that the Government have no policy for energy and that they are continuing to allow every little detailed application to go forward without any reference to a context of general planning? Does he not realise that although at present the price of oil has fallen, the whole problem of energy policy becomes more important as this century reaches its close?

The Earl of Mansfield

My Lords, of course I do not accept the first part of the noble Lord's question. However, it is clearly important, in this uncertain world, for the Government to establish, so far as is possible, the extent and location of our reserves of oil and gas. Any specific exploration or production activity thereafter must of course be subject to the full planning procedures, and as part of those planning procedures proper consideration is given to all the environmental questions.

The Earl of Lauderdale

My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that what he has said amounts to an approach which is fragmentary and ad hoc? If he is saying that we need to explore our natural resources, would he not agree that it is equally important to remove unnecessary obstructions from those who seek to explore? And is my noble friend not aware that very often they are obstructed by differences about planning concerns on the one hand and public hysteria, in the name of the environment, on the other?

The Earl of Mansfield

My Lords, I would describe the Government's approach as ad hoc rather than fragmentary. However, I take my noble friend's point that the exploitation of our reserves of oil and gas is extremely important. But so are environmental considerations. What the Government have to do, and what they seek to do, is to hold a balance, taking into account the very proper responsibilities of the local planning authorities, between the interests of oil or gas extraction and the preservation of the environment.

The Earl of Lauderdale

My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that he is saying that we need exploration but that we need to frustrate it on the environmental account, and that this is a contradiction?

The Earl of Mansfield

My Lords, my noble friend seeks to argue, and I am answering questions of fact. I do not agree.

The Earl of Kinnoull

My Lords, could my noble friend say what sort of environmental considerations were considered suitable for the New Forest area?

The Earl of Mansfield

Not without notice, my Lords.