HL Deb 18 March 1982 vol 428 cc749-50
Lord Robbins

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will provide a classified account for the Board for Local Authority Higher Education and give some indication of its main functions.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Elton)

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Secretary of State announced in another place on 28th January, the board will consist of 21 members (to whom one other has since been added) and a chairman. Their names were given in the announcement. He similarly announced on 23rd December last the terms of reference for this body. These are, broadly, to receive instructions from and make recommendations to the Committee for Local Authority Higher Education in pursuit of the fulfilment of the committee's terms of reference.

If I might anticipate the noble Lord's most likely first supplementary, I would add that those terms of reference are set out at length in my right honourable friend's statement. In so far as they can be briefly summarised, they are to advise the Secretary of State on local authority provision of higher education and on its rationalisation in the light of the availability of resources and of the provisions being made by the university, voluntary and direct grant sectors.

Lord Robbins

My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that very helpful reply, may I ask him two supplementary questions? The first is: How long is this committee expected to last? I gather that some termination was originally contemplated. The second supplementary question is: Is not the composition of this committee somewhat inappropriate to the functions which it is intended to perform? Would it not have been a good idea to have had rather more industrialists advising the polytechnics?

Lord Elton

My Lords, in answer to the noble Lord's first point, consideration of the long-term solution of the management problems of local authority higher education is continuing. However, given the urgent need for a co-ordinated response by the sector to resource constraints and an 18-year-old population that is due to decline, my right honourable friend decided to establish interim machinery to provide the academic advice needed for effective rationalisation in the short term. How short that term will be I cannot precisely say.

As to the noble Lord's second point, I take exactly what he says, but in setting up a body of this sort it is essential not to have anything too big, and it was equally essential to see that the providing authorities were adequately represented. However, I can assure the noble Lord that industrial and other sectors will be appropriately represented on the sub-groups appointed to deal with particular questions.

Lord Wynne-Jones

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us whether this committee is going to give detailed instructions to local authorities, or general instructions? He will appreciate that if the instructions are detailed they will interfere, or may interfere, with the present good working in many polytechnics.

Lord Elton

My Lords, the body will not give instructions to anybody; it will advise the Government and my right honourable friend.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

In that case, my Lords, would one be right in thinking that this committee will be expected to carry out the same kind of exercise as that which the University Grants Committee conducted in relation to the universities? Would it also be right to assume that the Government will be looking for savings of about the same percentage size as they have obtained from the universities, or more?

Lord Elton

My Lords, on the first point, the University Grants Committee distributes the resources the Government give en bloc, whereas the national advisory body will advise the Secretary of State; so their functions are different. As to the savings expected, as I said in answer to a supplementary question yesterday, the overall savings in both sectors will be approximately the same.

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