London Taxis: New Design (Hansard, 16 March 1982)

The Earl of Selkirk
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether new designs for taxis in London are in preparation and whether these designs provide for a driver's seat more suitable for the hours normally worked.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, the prototype of the Carbodies CR6, which is intended to replace the present FX4 early in 1984, was unveiled on 16th December. I understand that considerable care has been given to the design of the driving seat, in close consultation with the trade.

The Earl of Selkirk
My Lords, do I understand that taxi cabs are approved in every detail by the Home Office? If so, and bearing in mind that back pains which make them incapable of driving from time to time are virtually an occupational hazard for taxi drivers, may I ask my noble friend to agree that it is the duty of the Home Office to see that they are able to drive their taxis for maybe 10 hours a day without suffering that hazard? Would he further agree that we in this city have probably the finest taxi service compared with any other city in the world?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the details for approval of taxis are entirely a matter for the Assistant Commissioner (Traffic) of the Metropolitan Police, and my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has no power to intervene. I confirm that I have heard the same as my noble friend about the effect of the seats in existing taxis. I understand that an orthopaedic seat is now available for drivers and that it has proved popular with cab drivers.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
Has there been any consultation with the people who use the seats inside taxis, my Lords?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, great care is being taken over the design of the new taxi. What we need is a specialised vehicle that is robust, manoeuvrable, roomy and quick to board, and I understand that the new design for the CR6 satisfies those requirements.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, will there in future be some form of easy communication between the client and the taxi driver? Is my noble friend aware that many visitors to London, particularly those from over 516 seas, obtain the greatest information and wisdom from our taxi drivers but that they are currently denied much of that because they are shut off? It would, therefore, be a great asset to the information available and the ease with which that information can be transmitted if there were a simple intercom system between the client and taxi driver and vice-versa.

§ Lord Belstead
I take seriously what my noble friend says, my Lords. I do not think my noble friend Lord Selkirk has been shut off from taxi drivers.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, in view of the number of years during which taxis have been serving this city, does it surprise the Minister to learn that the seats still remain uncomfortable?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, just because the design of the taxi is of that age, it does not necessarily mean that the seats on which the drivers are sitting are of that age also. More seriously, the present design—referred to in my original Answer as the FX4, the taxi we all see round the streets—must be one of the safest vehicles on the road; in 23 years only two people have been killed in taxi accidents.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, is the Minister aware that a substantial number of taxi drivers are in the Transport and General Workers' Union bus section and that they are very interested in a new design of seat? Does it surprise the noble Lord to hear that up to a few weeks ago, when the noble Earl first tabled the Question, the bus section of the T & GWU had not been consulted about the matter? Will he bring his influence to bear to ensure that not only the Federation of Taxicab Operators is consulted but also the T & GWU?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I shall draw the attention of the Assistant Commissioner (Traffic) of the Metropolitan Police to the question which the noble Lord has asked.

§ Lord Ferrier
My Lords, in view of the loss of productivity arising from back pain, may I ask my noble friend to agree that it might be wise to consult the Anglo-European College of Chiropractic, who, I am sure, would be pleased to advise on the matter?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I shall also draw the attention of the Assistant Commissioner (Traffic) of the Metropolitan Police to the point my noble friend raises.

§ Lord Segal
My Lords, would the Minister undertake to use his influence in the proper quarters to try to design a form of taxi with the ingress and exit rather easier for disabled persons?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the CR6 has been especially designed with the needs of the disabled in mind. I am advised that it will easily be able to accommodate wheelchair passengers.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, will the Minister bear in mind that courting couples find the present seats 517 in taxis very comfortable and will he please not make any dramatic changes to them?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I am advised that the CR6 will also easily be able to accommodate courting couples.

§ Lord Balfour of Inchrye
My Lords, in his very interesting Answer, the Minister did not give a specific assurance that representatives of the taxi driver community were definitely consulted as regards the new design. Can he give that positive assurance?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I cannot give that positive assurance to my noble friend Lord Balfour of Inchrye, but I shall most certainly draw the attention of the Assistant Commissioner (Traffic) of the Metropolitan Police to my noble friend's supplementary question.

The Earl of Selkirk
My Lords, I am aware that more comfortable seats can be purchased by the taxi drivers, but will a comfortable and suitable seat be available in the new CR6 in the future as a standard fitting for all taxis?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, so far as the CR6 is concerned, as I said, the need is for a robust, manoeuvrable, roomy and quick-to-board vehicle, and I understand that the CR6 fulfils those particular specifications. With regard to the conditions of fitness with which London taxis must comply, and all the details that are needed, I repeat once again that that is entirely a matter for the Assistant Commissioner (Traffic) of the Metropolitan Police, and my right honourable friend the Home Secretary does not have power to intervene.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, with respect, the Minister did not answer my question. Is he aware that I was glad to hear about the robustness and the safety of the new vehicles? Were the passengers consulted at all on the design of the new taxi?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I apologise to the noble Baroness. I do not know the answer to that question. Once again, I shall draw attention to the question in those quarters where attention should be drawn, because, I repeat, my right honourable friend does not have power in this particular matter. The power for approving and licensing lies with the Metropolitan Police.